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Thread: Anarchist workbench?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
    I find it rather comical the passion with which some people absolutely despise Roubo workbenches (and also Schwarz – which is a little weird to despise someone who, whether you disagree with some/most/all of what he says, the guy is just sharing his opinion and has done an awful lot to get people interested in handtool woodworking). The Roubo is a very good bench design, regardless of what anyone says. So is the English joiner’s bench. So is a Scandinavian bench. So is a shaker bench. These are all very very very very good time-tested designs. Anyone who disagrees is ignoring the fact that a whole ton of dead people made their livings with these benches and an awful lot of them did much better work than the vast majority of us. And they did it not as a hobby, but under the gun with a customer and tight turnaround times having to work as fast as humanly possible while still maintaining quality.

    I would also say that the Roubo is definitely NOT the bench flavor of the week right now. It has easily been eclipsed by the Moravian. Whenever someone posts about what kind of bench they should build there are always recommendations for the Moravian – and at least three times as many as the Roubo. If I had a dime for every time someone recommended a Moravian I would be able to buy all the wood to build a Moravian.

    You find it comical that people feel passionate about their own opinion? You barely write a few sentences before you disregard everyone who disagrees with your opinion?
    " The Roubo is a very good bench design, regardless of what anyone says."
    I don't understand some people
    Work safe

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    It is, but I will from here on simply take your opinion as uneducated in this context.

    Wow, you people do not tolerate anyone who thinks for themselves or has a contrary option.
    I don't agree with you so I'm uneducated in this context?
    Absolutely amazing

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    It is, but I will from here on simply take your opinion as uneducated in this context.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post
    Wow, you people do not tolerate anyone who thinks for themselves or has a contrary option.
    I don't agree with you so I'm uneducated in this context?
    Absolutely amazing
    Edward, You seem to miss one very important word, CONTEXT.

    Your comments seem to imply there is only one bench in Chris Schwarz's first book:

    I have read his first workbench book about 12 years ago, didn't like it then, nothing has changed.
    You had noted your error earlier but you seem to have returned to the same point. Reminder: The book is not about one style of bench. The "anarchist" designation may come from his employment at the time not having a bench included in his job description. He came up with a way 'outside of the box' to build and then have his own workbench.

    It may also be related to the idea that a workbench had to be made of maple or some other hardwood at a cost three or four times what it cost to build his first bench.

    Is there a problem with his refining this design over the years?

    Is there something wrong with the numerous bench styles Mr. Schwarz's built and included in his book?

    Do you feel he shouldn't pursue the building of benches for pleasure, education, personal use or income? That's what he does. People have paid to attend his classes and build their own benches. People have paid to attend his classes on building a tool chest. Mr. Schwarz has made good money teaching about, writing about and making benches, chest and chairs. He also makes a good income from selling many of these items.

    There are likely many of us who wish we were as good at making money doing something we enjoy.

    So, if at the end of the day, if he would agree with my design principles, I'll go my own way.
    Can you share your design principles with the rest of us? How do you know he doesn't agree with your design principles?

    How about showing us what you make and how your bench design fulfills your specific needs.

    There are often discussions of bench design here. Many feel it is an important part of their hobby, craft or profession of woodworking.

    It is beneficial to know the advantages and drawbacks of various bench designs.

    One person's drawback can be another's advantage, just like a bench's advantage for one can be a drawback to others.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #64
    This entire thread has gone astray.
    I answered the OP's question and made a sarcastic comment about the designer of the bench in question.
    MEANING, if Mr Schrawz hasn't found the "perfect" bench in all the years he's been doing this, what chance does anyone else have. Sarcasm, get it.
    I read his first book, as I said I didn't care for it. It could be his style of writing or the fact that there was nothing about workbenches that I found particularly useful. I have read many articles and columns by Mr.Schwarz over the years and as I said, we just seem to have a different perspective on thing, that's all.
    I also never said that there was anything wrong with the Roubo bench. I said I didn't like it and it's not for everyone. I also implied that some who've built them are now having second thoughts.
    NONE of this is controversial, just one mans opinion.
    Many on this forum seem to think that's not allowed and now you want me to prove or somehow validate my option by elaborating on my design process and or philosophy, seriously?
    I already said that I do not care for benches where the top is integrated into the legs. This alone eliminates a Roubo style bench from my consideration.
    If you really must know, my preferred design is along the lines of a bench found in FWW Tools & Shops back in the winter of 2003/2004 But since it's not a Roubo, all of those guys are to be considered uneducated and we'll just dismiss their opinion shall we.

  5. #65
    Maybe someone will do a book on “Route 66”TV benches . Will probably be mostly modifications of road side picnic tables that can be made
    and used before the angry residents decide you murdered one of the fine locals.

  6. #66
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    Many on this forum seem to think that's not allowed and now you want me to prove or somehow validate my option by elaborating on my design process and or philosophy, seriously?
    To the best of my knowledge no one has called for censoring your posts.

    My request was for you to share your design philosophy.

    My request was not for you to validate your opinion or choice but to see what you find to work for your woodworking. It would be simple to take a picture, post it and tell the readers of this thread why this works for you.
    This is not meant to insult you or create any difficulty for you.

    Not having a copy of FWW Tools & Shops from the winter of 2003/2004, or knowing what became of it if one was ever in my possession, my knowledge of your bench design will only be by your posting an image or two. It might be something others will want to adopt.

    But since it's not a Roubo, all of those guys are to be considered uneducated and we'll just dismiss their opinion shall we.
    My memory may be failing me, but there doesn't seem to be anyone other than yourself claiming this opinion is rampant.

    BTW, sarcasm seldom comes through clearly in text. One of my many weaknesses is to accept people at their word, unless they have shown themselves unworthy of such.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #67
    You seem to be trying to be the voice of reason.
    For starters, I never used the word "rampant", so putting words in my mouth isn't really helping anything. And if you didn't "get" the sarcasm from my first post, I don't know what to tell you.

    I am not taking a photo of my bench so that you and others, that have already dismissed my opinion as uneducated, uninformed or whatever, can critique it. I have a sneaky feeling no matter what I were to post there would be no difference in opinion, how ironic.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0_Img73dRDxxN3

    Have a nice day

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post
    Have a nice day
    I sense sarcasm.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I sense sarcasm.
    Me too.
    Ironically, my last bench was very similar in design to the FWW model featured in the link. Mine wasn’t as nicely made as it featured a laminated mdf and tempered hardboard top but I used it for over 20 years. My new bench is roubo influenced and I drew a lot of ideas and dimensions from The Anarchist Workbench. It was a fun project and it’s a good bench too. At the end of the day, they are just woodworking benches…

  10. #70
    My bench is a nailed and screwed together bunch of 2 by 4 lumber . It looks like a short bridge. The top is nice, 3 and 3/8ths thick beech.
    The pieces are about 1 and 3/8ths . Has a nice old Emmert vise.

  11. #71
    Mel, I've always admired those patternmaker's vises on paper. Is yours easy to use in all its versatile glory?

  12. #72
    Oh yeah! ,Kevin. Mine is an Emmert , It opens at least a foot ,and jaw length is ,I think 16” . Some of them have 18” length. Got it by sheer
    luck. Guy I was working for bought bunch of shop stuff in a lot, and several vises were included. The swivel jaws are nice for holding non
    square stuff. He had no knowledge of the vises and had paid no attention to them. Think it was about $125, that was about 20 years ago.
    The swivel jaws come 2 ways ,moved by a lever, and moved by turning a knob. Mine has the knob , the levers often won’t stay where you
    want . But doubtless some on this forum would know the fix.

  13. #73
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    If I someday have a shop with much better climate control I will reconsider fastening a top to an undercarriage with lag bolts. Local I often see 8-10% RH in the winter and 70-80% RH summer. The wood in my bench does move with the seasons, even inside my garage. YMMV.

  14. #74
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    Hardly seems like it now but 20 years ago I built a bench that by today you could call a a Roubo. 8’ long 2’ deep laminated 2x 6 dou fir top. Tail vise with 1 1/2 metal screw that I had built up for it. 6 x 6 legs morticed into the top, not through the top and no dovetails. It was a good bench and I didn’t know what a Roubo was at the time. When I moved I left it with a friend that wanted it. I missed it most because of the tail vise. I just built another bench more like a Moravian but added a tail vise. Would i build another like the old one, no, too heavy for the work I do. Did I need it then, no, same reason. The tail vise is what i missed. Got that now so I’m happy.
    Jim

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post
    You seem to be trying to be the voice of reason.
    For starters, I never used the word "rampant", so putting words in my mouth isn't really helping anything. And if you didn't "get" the sarcasm from my first post, I don't know what to tell you.

    I am not taking a photo of my bench so that you and others, that have already dismissed my opinion as uneducated, uninformed or whatever, can critique it. I have a sneaky feeling no matter what I were to post there would be no difference in opinion, how ironic.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...0_Img73dRDxxN3

    Have a nice day
    Thanks for the link. There is no reasonable voice to dismiss the design of the FWW bench. After all it is a flat surface with work holding devices supported by legs.

    Is there anything untoward about being a voice of reason?

    No, you did not use the word rampant.

    rampant | ˈrampənt |
    adjective
    1 (especially of something unwelcome or unpleasant) flourishing or spreading unchecked
    It did seem you felt as if you were being persecuted by others for your opinions. (something unwelcome or unpleasant) To me it seemed you were sensing it from all directions. (flourishing or spreading) Rampant seemed like a fitting word. My faux pas.

    Maybe it was the unrecognized sarcasm that brought others like myself to try and explain how the contents of a book didn't appear to be what you were saying they were.

    As stated earlier sarcasm in text is all too easily misunderstood without knowing the person posting the sarcasm or having emojis attached to indicate it is sarcasm.

    In work training situations one of my biggest headaches was caused by someone being sarcastic about how to adjust a mechanism. It caused years of fixing what someone thought they were doing right because of another person's sarcastic remark. It wasn't possible to get them to believe they were doing it incorrectly after they heard so and so tell them "the right way of doing it."

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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