Anarchist workbench?

[Jim Koepke]

I don't think Schwarz kept building benches because he never found one he could enjoy using. He has previously referenced a number of benches he likes. He just finds benches interesting so he keeps building them. And given his occupation, it helps pay the bills - so there's some good incentive there.

Yes, no doubt, the same goes for his tool chests.
It's just that we're all not in that same boat.

He gets a pretty penny for the chests he builds. The same for all the chairs he has built.

Like the benches he builds, some of it is for the money, some of it is for the learning. Building a low, Roman staked bench likely incorporates mechanical properties that can be applied to his building of stick chairs.

He doesn't teach classes as much as he has in the past. That could be pandemic related. It could be related to the success of his publishing business and his ability to make decent money making chairs, chests and what ever else folks will give him money to make.

BTW, his evangelical fervor for SYP often makes me feel like taking my truck to the nearest place stocking it and picking up a load.

jtk

[Andrew Seemann]

The whole "Roubo" bench thing has always fascinated me, not the bench itself (I've never liked it), but how it ended up in mainstream woodworking, and how it is seems like it has become the current bench of choice. As far as I know, the first modern reference to the bench called "Roubo" is in the appendix of Frank Hubbard's 1965 book Three Centuries of Harpsichord Making. Frank was also a Medieval furniture enthusiast and had translated some of Roubo's works from the French. He added the bench as an example of available woodworking tech at the time, along with pictures and descriptions of period tools plus water and hand powered resawing.

Scott Landis gives a history and a plan for what he calls "The Roubo Bench" (even though Roubo has more than one bench in his books) in his 1987 book The Workbench Book. I seem to recall a connection between Hubbard and Landis's book but I can't find it now. This seems to be where it becomes more mainstream and in the woodworking public eye. The thing that has always amazed me is that it somehow got cast as the ideal hand tool bench, which is strange because Roubo himself in a later book also talks about these great new "German" benches with all their neat holding devices and how they are great for holding small stuff. The "Roubo" benches are shown in the illustration as being used for millwork and joiner's work. Basically it looks like they are making huge doors for French Chateaus, not the small case work, dovetailing, and sawing/chiseling that most modern hand tool workers do today.

Somehow from there it ends up as being "anarchic". Strange indeed.

[Scott Clausen]

As I get older I need to be able to move items without help as I have no partner in woodworking. A full 3/4" sheet of plywood terrifies me. This is what made me look at the Moravian style. I get the feeling that there are some fantastic but massive Roubo benches out there that their owners have builders remorse when it is time to downsize. My top slab is at the limit of what I can move and carry solo. Going back to the wood whisperer, I don't know if his Roubo was a bad fit for his work style or was more of a bad fit for his shop space. I have been listening to the podcasts and notice that you can now hear the garage door going up when Mark's wife gets home. That's a new sound which is also a loss of square footage.

[Edward Weber]

The whole "Roubo" bench thing has always fascinated me, not the bench itself (I've never liked it), but how it ended up in mainstream woodworking, and how it is seems like it has become the current bench of choice. As far as I know, the first modern reference to the bench called "Roubo" is in the appendix of Frank Hubbard's 1965 book Three Centuries of Harpsichord Making. Frank was also a Medieval furniture enthusiast and had translated some of Roubo's works from the French. He added the bench as an example of available woodworking tech at the time, along with pictures and descriptions of period tools plus water and hand powered resawing.

Scott Landis gives a history and a plan for what he calls "The Roubo Bench" (even though Roubo has more than one bench in his books) in his 1987 book The Workbench Book. I seem to recall a connection between Hubbard and Landis's book but I can't find it now. This seems to be where it becomes more mainstream and in the woodworking public eye. The thing that has always amazed me is that it somehow got cast as the ideal hand tool bench, which is strange because Roubo himself in a later book also talks about these great new "German" benches with all their neat holding devices and how they are great for holding small stuff. The "Roubo" benches are shown in the illustration as being used for millwork and joiner's work. Basically it looks like they are making huge doors for French Chateaus, not the small case work, dovetailing, and sawing/chiseling that most modern hand tool workers do today.

Somehow from there it ends up as being "anarchic". Strange indeed.

Thank you, now i know I'm not alone in my perspective on this bench.
I have no problem with the bench itself, if that's what people want but the whole anarchistic thing is silly IMO. Are you really and anarchist if you build the same thing everyone else does or promotes it?
The Roubo was "mainstream" in the 1600's, I don't know how or why people adopted it to current day woodworking. It's big, strong, stout and can hold up a car but do most people need that?. I agree with overbuilding things so you're not always testing the limits as you work but these may be going too far for some. Maybe, just maybe, the popularity is waning.
A good workbench is a project most only tackle about once every ten years, if that, this may also contribute to the lack of visibility of the newer style.

Personally I prefer a base that's stable on it's own and then a top can be added. Having legs integral to the top is not my design choice. Which is one of the reasons I don't care for them.

[Monte Milanuk]

Scott,

The Moravian style is another one on my 'short' list. Built a Nicholson (more of a Nichol-bo, dimensionally), found I really didn't like the aprons, at least not the way I implemented them, and since deconstructed it and have been reusing the lumber for other projects. I've never really had a bench with a tool well, so I'm not sure whether I'd love it or hate it. At this point... I'm almost considering making both, at some point, just 'because'. *After* I get about a dozen other projects taken care of first, so no idea when that might be!

[Scott Clausen]

Scott,

The Moravian style is another one on my 'short' list. Built a Nicholson (more of a Nichol-bo, dimensionally), found I really didn't like the aprons, at least not the way I implemented them, and since deconstructed it and have been reusing the lumber for other projects. I've never really had a bench with a tool well, so I'm not sure whether I'd love it or hate it. At this point... I'm almost considering making both, at some point, just 'because'. *After* I get about a dozen other projects taken care of first, so no idea when that might be!

A bench with a tool well, dem's fighting words. I like mine, yes it catches shavings and tools but I can dump it easy and that action alone causes me to put a few tools away but I have never had a bench without either. I did turn the underside into my clamp rack but that cancels out the portability advantage. I have a project where I am making a new double hung sash for a neighbor using hand tools and fantasize taking the bench up there to adjust the fit. I might need to get some Roy Underhill garments to make the show memorable. Ironically I have placed myself on his waiting list for the sash course.

[Jim Koepke]

the whole anarchistic thing is silly IMO.

My understanding, from actually reading the text, is Mr Schwarz sees himself as the "aesthetic anarchist."

He worked as an editor for a publisher. He wanted his own work bench. This didn't fit in with the company's idea of what an editor needed to do his job. He devised a plan to get his own bench by pitching the idea for an article on being able to build a bench for less than $200.

It sold magazines, he got a bench.

That is likely where the 'anarchy' designation originates. Though quitting his job, buying a run down building and starting a business or three is also a bit anarchistic in common society.

A well organized system is nice, but occasionally a little anarchy is helpful in getting things done.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Hmmm...someone seems to be trying to start an Anti-Schwarz Crusade? Unless they have mistaken Chris for Scott Phillips?


Yep, I think we got the memo....someone HATES Roubo style benches......about like a "Crusade" a few years back....one was started against all things Minwax....( turned out Minwax was hurting his sales of P&L 38...)

I built my bench to both fit the shop I work in, AND the style of projects I build.....with the features I wanted to have. Which is the way EVERY bench should be made...

BTW: those benches that Roubo shows....were made from a single thick slab of wood....a bit hard to do, nowadays, isn't it?

[mike stenson]

Eh, it's patently obvious that actually none of the books have actually been read. Which really makes comments about them, well, fundamentally hilarious. To be honest.

[Jim Koepke]

Eh, it's patently obvious that actually none of the books have actually been read. Which really makes comments about them, well, fundamentally hilarious. To be honest.

Like Steven said, it is may be more an anti-Schwarz feeling than a commentary on a book.

Like so many have said before, a workbench is merely a tool to support and hold ones work. It is only common sense for any individual planning on making a bench to make a bench customized for making their work easier for their style of working.

Wouldn't that be somewhat anarchistic in a world of identical factory built workbenches?

jtk

[mike stenson]

Like Steven said, it is may be more an anti-Schwarz feeling than a commentary on a book.

Like so many have said before, a workbench is merely a tool to support and hold ones work. It is only common sense for any individual planning on making a bench to make a bench customized for making their work easier for their style of working.

Wouldn't that be somewhat anarchistic in a world of identical factory built workbenches?

jtk

Indeed. Or factory made (and disposable) things, like furniture, in general.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Personally I prefer a base that's stable on it's own and then a top can be added. Having legs integral to the top is not my design choice. Which is one of the reasons I don't care for them.

Someday someone will need to move it out of my basement.... They probably will not want to need a chain saw.... So I want it to come apart. Even then, it won't be easy. I bought my work bench based on what I could afford and if I could get the parts into the basement.

[Don Dorn]

Well, My name isn't Schwarz, I don't care for the Roubo design and I'm not a 16th century French woodworker, other than that, the bench is probably fine.

Schwarz has been banging on about his workbench rules for probably 15 years or so and never once has he asked anyone that i can tell, "what type of woodworking do you do ?". You know, so maybe you could build one for your own needs, crazy right.
Not everyone needs or wants a bench made from 6" or 8" timbers, no matter how much Schwarz gets excited about it.
A Roubo or clone is not the "perfect" bench, the perfect bench is different for everyone.

I just recently saw that the Wood Whisperer is auctioning his Roubo off because it doesn't fit his needs.

I suggest,
1. think about your own method of work and needs
2. size it to your own body and shop
3. base it on a style you like and can afford
You have to use it after all.
Sorry for the rant

It's not a rant - your opinion.

[chris carter]

For those concerned about being able to get their Roubo out of the basement when they move, it should be pointed out that you don’t have to glue the top to the legs. Lots of people just rely on gravity and it seems to work perfectly fine. If you don’t want to rely on gravity you can just dry pin the top to the legs which is also a common technique with Roubos. That way, when it comes time to get that heavy thing out of there you just drill out the pins. Either way you now have a separate top and separate undercarriage to move. There are also people called movers who can easily get a full Roubo out of a basement and into a truck – if they could get my 350lb solid steel office desk up and down a flight of stairs with a turn in them for me without too much effort, then they can move a Roubo.

As for me, I have a split-top roubo. It is not glued to the legs. Being a split-top there are a pair of top stretchers and the inside portions of the tops must be lagged (not too tight though) onto that. Remove the lags and the top comes off.

[Jim Koepke]

It is amazing how many ways there are to, in effect, place a rectangle of wood on top of legs.

People have been doing this for millennia yet we still debate the ways in which it should be done.

Just a thought before dinner.

jtk