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Thread: Small vintage lathe vs modern midi lathe?

  1. #1
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    Small vintage lathe vs modern midi lathe?

    I have a small metal lathe (several actually) so I am familiar with lathe basics, but I haven't run a wood lathe since the 9th grade (early 1980s).


    I'd like to get a wood lathe to fiddle about with, but since I don't have any specific plans I want to stick to something smallish and at least semi-mobile.

    Beyond the easily compared specs like swing, distance between centers, RPM range, horse power etc I'm wondering how the modern small lathes in the 10x15 to 12x20-ish range from Grizzly, Jet, Rikon etc compare to the older bench top wood lathes from Craftsman, Delta etc.

    Looking at them the new lathes definitely seem like an improvement over most of the vintage 8" and 9" lathes, but I'm less sure of the larger 12x36 machines, particularly the Delta lathes which seem more robust than their Craftsman counter parts. The larger ones look pretty basic, but then wood lathes are rather simple devices compared to metal working lathes.

    Also I notice most except Delta seem to have run a 3/4"-16 spindle and 1"-8 definitely seems to have become the standard. How much of a disadvantage is the smaller spindle ? I know Sherline and Taig run 3/4"-16 but is there much in the way of wood turning accessories in this size?


    I generally favor vintage machines where possible, but there have been advances in technology over the past 60 years and recognize that sometimes new is just better than old. A lot of the new lathes seem to be built a bit beefier, but that could simply be to counteract the use of lighter materials on the new vs cast iron on the old. Cost doesn't seem to be a major factor since on the used market as long as you are patient there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in asking prices unless you get into the higher end of this class.

  2. #2
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    In my experience weight and rigidity are king on wood lathes just like they are on metal lathes. Precision on wood lathes isn't as critical as on metal lathes. When roughing out a big uneven chunk of odd shaped wood a heavier lathe will be much easier.

    If you do decide to go for a smaller lighter lathe a good heavy and strong place to bolt it to will make a big difference in its usefulness.

  3. #3
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    If you're comfortable outfitting an older machine with a 3 phase motor and VFD to give you variable speed drive and a lower low end speed and with the possibility of needing to replace bearings then you can almost certainly get a beefiier "old iron" machine for your money than going with a newer one. If you don't want to invest time in upgrading than I'd go with a new machine. Because older lathes were designed primarily for spindle work the lowest speed they offer is often uncomfortably fast for large unbalanced bowl blanks. Moving that belt every time you want to change speed also gets old fast.

    Wood lathes are very simple machines, with little that can go seriously wrong with them. Big and heavy are desirable attributes more readily found in older machines.

  4. #4
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    I'm no turner but, I just bought a almost new modern lathe. About 15 yers ago I owned an old Oliver lathe for a few months. I think one of the overlooked differences is the new machine is almost dead quiet where the old Oliver was quite noisy. Maybe the dust collector will negate the peaceful nature off a quiet machine though.
    The Plane Anarchist

  5. #5
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    Aaron -- There is a lot of variability in terms of quality in both modern and vintage lathes in that size range. Given that, I don't believe it's possible to say that one category, modern or vintage, contains lathes that are clearly superior to all the lathes in the other. However, I can say I'd rather have a modern Rikon 70-100 or a Jet 1221 than a vintage Craftsman 'tube lathe'. Even the small vintage bench top lathes I've seen from Delta are not nearly as beefy as (most of) today's modern lathes. (It seems Delta expected the bench to provide most of the lathe's rigidity.) There might be a vintage bench top lathe that has really good bones, such that the vintage lathe would match the quality and convenience of some of the better modern lathes. If so, I'm not aware of it. The smaller spindle, smaller bearings, and less stout bed ways, translates into more flex and vibration than you'd have in a modern lathe. You can't fix that by upgrading to a modern VFD drive and motor.

    This is different than the question of whether a 'resto-modded' full sized vintage lathe can be the equal of a modern full sized lathe. Many of the full sized lathes built in the 20th century had very beefy bones. Upgraded with a modern VFD drive and motor, a full size vintage lathe can be the equal to many of the better-built modern lathes. This is particularly true if we're just considering spindle turning. To illustrate, several years ago I was able to tour Dale Nish's home shop. Dale, along with his son, was the founder of Craft Supplies USA. He could have any lathe he wanted in his personal shop. He had a vintage Powermatic that he purchased when the local school district sold off all its woodworking machinery. I was surprised at his choice of lathe and asked him to explain. He said that, to relax in the evenings, he often turned in his shop. But, what he tended to turn for personal enjoyment were smaller items -- boxes, birdhouse ornaments, and such. He said the Powermatic excelled at that type of work. And, he said, if he wanted to turn something that required a larger swing, he could always use one of the lathes at CSUSA.

    Again, it might be possible to find a vintage bench top lathe that has the bones to be the equal to a modern midi-lathe. I'm just not aware of one.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  6. #6
    To me, the biggest advantage to the modern lathes is the variable speed. Far better than the Reeves drive or the change the belt systems. Smaller lathes with max diameter capabilities of under 12 inches are more intended for spindle turning. I did maybe 3 spindles and went straight to bowls. Depends on what you want to turn. If you can find a near by club, The AAW has a list, you can probably pick up a used one for a fair price, and tools too.

    robo hippy

  7. #7
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    Craftsman never made a lathe worth buying in my option. Gap bed lathes are a real pain, and finally I would never buy a lathe that didn't have an electronic variable speed. Old lathes were sold in the days when bowls and vases were only made to hold Christmas nuts and a flower for your Mom. Todays lathes are far superior.

  8. #8
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    Thank you to all for your comments, basically reinforced what I was thinking.

    Bowl making doesn't really interest me at this time, not to say that couldn't change and I'm not likely to turn anything much longer than a foot, I might try some decorative knobs / drawer pulls, pens, pepper grinder stuff like that. Stuff that honestly I could probably do on one of the metal lathes but it seems best not to cross the streams, so I prefer to stick with dedicated machines.
    Mobility is an important factor so something in the under 150lb range is key for now. If turning develops into something I really get into then I might be willing to devote the space to a bigger more capable, but harder to get out of the way lathe. Understand it is hard to suggest machines when the projects are vague. Same reason I'm trying not to commit a lot of cash or space, just something to fool around with and see if it develops into something, or if it just parks in a corner 11 months out of the year.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post
    Aaron -- There is a lot of variability in terms of quality in both modern and vintage lathes in that size range. Given that, I don't believe it's possible to say that one category, modern or vintage, contains lathes that are clearly superior to all the lathes in the other. However, I can say I'd rather have a modern Rikon 70-100 or a Jet 1221 than a vintage Craftsman 'tube lathe'. Even the small vintage bench top lathes I've seen from Delta are not nearly as beefy as (most of) today's modern lathes. (It seems Delta expected the bench to provide most of the lathe's rigidity.) There might be a vintage bench top lathe that has really good bones, such that the vintage lathe would match the quality and convenience of some of the better modern lathes. If so, I'm not aware of it. The smaller spindle, smaller bearings, and less stout bed ways, translates into more flex and vibration than you'd have in a modern lathe. You can't fix that by upgrading to a modern VFD drive and motor.

    This is different than the question of whether a 'resto-modded' full sized vintage lathe can be the equal of a modern full sized lathe. Many of the full sized lathes built in the 20th century had very beefy bones. Upgraded with a modern VFD drive and motor, a full size vintage lathe can be the equal to many of the better-built modern lathes. This is particularly true if we're just considering spindle turning. To illustrate, several years ago I was able to tour Dale Nish's home shop. Dale, along with his son, was the founder of Craft Supplies USA. He could have any lathe he wanted in his personal shop. He had a vintage Powermatic that he purchased when the local school district sold off all its woodworking machinery. I was surprised at his choice of lathe and asked him to explain. He said that, to relax in the evenings, he often turned in his shop. But, what he tended to turn for personal enjoyment were smaller items -- boxes, birdhouse ornaments, and such. He said the Powermatic excelled at that type of work. And, he said, if he wanted to turn something that required a larger swing, he could always use one of the lathes at CSUSA.

    Again, it might be possible to find a vintage bench top lathe that has the bones to be the equal to a modern midi-lathe. I'm just not aware of one.

    Thank you for the detailed explanation. Understand one of the full size vintage lathes might be able to compete with or even surpass something new but you are saying what I was already thinking to myself. I didn't want to write off these older lathes without confirming that they don't offer more than they appear to. There are some pre-war Sears cast iron lathes that kind of resemble the Delta lathes, but they have the smaller 3/4"-16 spindle. The post war Craftsman bench top wood lathes were not impressing me and with the current Craftsman fever, the prices I've been seeing for them don't either.

    I probably won't write off one of the 1940s-50s Delta lathes if I find the right deal (cheap, nearby, in good shape with a nice selection of tooling) as I'm strictly doing hobby work and tool ambiance does carry some weight with me, but I will continue to keep my focus on one of the better quality Midi-lathes, Jet and Rikon are what I've been keeping an eye out for, some of the others like Wen are pretty cheap even new but I'm looking for cheap used not the cheapest possible. Variable speed is something I'd definitely be looking for on a modern lathe. A treadmill motor might be worthwhile on a small vintage lathe, but VFD and a 3 phase motor seems like too much money and effort to put into something in this class when there are off the shelf options. I have a VFD and 3 phase motor on a vertical mill, so I've been there, and definitely worth doing where the machine can pay off for the time, effort and money spent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    To me, the biggest advantage to the modern lathes is the variable speed. Far better than the Reeves drive or the change the belt systems. Smaller lathes with max diameter capabilities of under 12 inches are more intended for spindle turning. I did maybe 3 spindles and went straight to bowls. Depends on what you want to turn. If you can find a near by club, The AAW has a list, you can probably pick up a used one for a fair price, and tools too.

    robo hippy
    I'm in a relatively rural area and unfortunately no clubs or anything close by. There is a maker space about an hour and 20 minutes from me, but it has been closed for the past year + due to covid. I've used variable speed, reeves drive and belt change lathes, so I do understand the benefit of an electronic speed control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    Craftsman never made a lathe worth buying in my option. Gap bed lathes are a real pain, and finally I would never buy a lathe that didn't have an electronic variable speed. Old lathes were sold in the days when bowls and vases were only made to hold Christmas nuts and a flower for your Mom. Todays lathes are far superior.
    Agree, Craftsman has sold some quality tools, but the more I have looked at what Sears has offered in the way of small wood lathes I wasn't impressed. I really dislike when people describe small lathes as toylike, but many (not all) of the small Sears lathes do look like they were probably marketed towards young wood workers. The small lathe market seems to have become much more serious over the past 20-ish years.

  9. I have nothing to compare my lathe to, so take this for what it's worth.
    I have a Rikon 70-105 mini lathe. It will easily turn anything you mention, and is light enough to move easily. Before building a dedicated base for it I used to set it on my table saw when I used it. Looking at pictures I'd guess that some factory in China likely makes the same lathe for several company's with the same specifications but different paint and name on the machine. I have not used it yet but I have a bed extension that would allow me to turn up to about 3' in length. I know several other makes have the same extension available. You can find similar lathes for $250-$350 used.

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