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Thread: Felder PCS?

  1. #1

    Felder PCS?

    Interesting new video from Felder on the Format 4 table saw showing a PCS system. Looks just like Sawstop and carries the same PCS branding, so I couldn't be surprised if they were related.

    They have a website for it too.

    https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/pcs

    Edit: Video I meant to post:

    Last edited by derek labian; 11-16-2021 at 12:27 PM. Reason: accidentally left out video

  2. #2
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    The Felder system is nothing like the SawStop & they don't even look similar. They do both retract the blade, though the Felder system has no sacrificial parts to replace when the system is triggered.

  3. #3
    I have used (and sold) them. Fire away: What do you want to know?

    Erik

    WMGH8670.jpg
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  4. #4
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    Yes, similar end result, but a completely and radically different way of doing the deed.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Yes, similar end result, but a completely and radically different way of doing the deed.
    So, Felder actually holds the patent on the PCS design. The system was developed in conjunction with the engineering department at the University of Vienna. The triggering mechanism is the same as SS (completing the electrical circuit being the trigger) but the rest is, as Jim mentioned, 100% different. Things I noticed after getting a chance to actually use it:

    -When the PCS triggers, it is amazingly quiet. Just an audible "thunk" as the blade drops out of the way. Rather anti-climactic, in fact. I was expecting some loud bang.
    -The system's sensitivity can be adjusted (by a Felder tech).
    -I think I timed the actual reset: About 8 seconds
    -According to the factory techs we had at the show with us, the PCS system was tested to 500+ cycles before requiring re-calibration or registering any sort of issue. I believe there's a buffer assembly of some type in the bottom of the saw group that might require replacement at 500 actuations but that's it.

    Another well-known name in the European sliding saw world that has their own blade-stopping system but theirs is based on a camera which is mounted to the overhead sawguard. They apparently have shown a prototype machine at a few shows but not sure if it's actually something you can own, yet. The PCS system is real and available now. We have a sold a number in the US already. It doesn't seem like I can embed unhosted video clips here or I would share a few clips of the machine in use.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  6. #6
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    Confirming that video media does need to be hosted elsewhere to embed...the 'Tube is generally the most popular.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    The Felder system is nothing like the SawStop & they don't even look similar. They do both retract the blade, though the Felder system has no sacrificial parts to replace when the system is triggered.
    They look identical from the user perspective. I don't know whats happening under the saw.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Confirming that video media does need to be hosted elsewhere to embed...the 'Tube is generally the most popular.
    Not sure what happened to the video link, this is the one I meant to post, just posted a couple of days ago. Pretty interesting in comparison to SS.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Confirming that video media does need to be hosted elsewhere to embed...the 'Tube is generally the most popular.
    Yeah, I figured that. Here is a trade show video from one of the Austrians. The b***s on that dude, using his actual finger! My wife made me swear to never do that.

    Erik

    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    So, Felder actually holds the patent on the PCS design. The system was developed in conjunction with the engineering department at the University of Vienna. The triggering mechanism is the same as SS (completing the electrical circuit being the trigger) but the rest is, as Jim mentioned, 100% different. Things I noticed after getting a chance to actually use it:

    -When the PCS triggers, it is amazingly quiet. Just an audible "thunk" as the blade drops out of the way. Rather anti-climactic, in fact. I was expecting some loud bang.
    -The system's sensitivity can be adjusted (by a Felder tech).
    -I think I timed the actual reset: About 8 seconds
    -According to the factory techs we had at the show with us, the PCS system was tested to 500+ cycles before requiring re-calibration or registering any sort of issue. I believe there's a buffer assembly of some type in the bottom of the saw group that might require replacement at 500 actuations but that's it.

    Another well-known name in the European sliding saw world that has their own blade-stopping system but theirs is based on a camera which is mounted to the overhead sawguard. They apparently have shown a prototype machine at a few shows but not sure if it's actually something you can own, yet. The PCS system is real and available now. We have a sold a number in the US already. It doesn't seem like I can embed unhosted video clips here or I would share a few clips of the machine in use.

    Erik
    Pretty interesting; I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the Felder system. Do you know how does Felder stops the blade (or does it just drop the blade)?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Yeah, I figured that. Here is a trade show video from one of the Austrians. The b***s on that dude, using his actual finger! My wife made me swear to never do that.

    Erik

    Trying to determine if that is courage, commitment, or stupidity Pretty cool though!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Pretty interesting; I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the Felder system. Do you know how does Felder stops the blade (or does it just drop the blade)?
    I think part of the issue there is limited availability...Erik can comment on what specific saw models can be bought with it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Pretty interesting; I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the Felder system. Do you know how does Felder stops the blade (or does it just drop the blade)?
    Just drops. The "drop" part happens so fast that the motor brake doesn't have time to engage until the saw unit is well below the cast iron deck. You can actually hear the motor brake engaging after the blade drops. Once that happens, the machine is cleared to reset the blade. The other feature on Felder saws that doesn't get enough press is the LED safety light for the scoring blade (because you can't see/hear the scoring blade when it's running: Go to 3:26 of the video below)...

    Erik

    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I think part of the issue there is limited availability...Erik can comment on what specific saw models can be bought with it.
    Only the Kappa 550 so far. Reason for that is that PCS mechanism is so large that we cannot physically fit it into a smaller chassis. With the magnets and everything, I think the saw group weighs something like 275 lbs., so size is a limitation. Also, it's a "premium" feature and like so many things, if you want the premium feature, you gotta' buy the premium model.

    I think the PCS machine is definitely a niche feature. We have no interest in competing with SS. Two totally different markets. The Austrians told me that they can't crank out PCS machines fast enough at the factory, demand is so high over there. But that's Europe, where large sliders are still a staple. We've sold a number here in the US but it will take time for the word to get out. I can see a market in schools/institutions who need more than regular cabinet saw. It will just take time.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Sweet saw..

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