FTL will not save us

[Doug Garson]

Kevin

We are very smart and have incredible abilities to make changes, but we seem held back tremendously from our potential, by the negative side of human nature, and our inability to see what is in front of us.

In a struggle to understand the basis of our stupidity, and in keeping with the topic of the thread I came up with this;

The Starship Enterprise.


Picture if you will, your head is the bridge of the Starship enterprise.
The windows are your eyes
The crew observe and record data as it appears in front of the window.
You are captain Kirk.
On this bridge you don’t get to look out the window, your chair faces a monitor on the back wall.
Kirk relies on the video stream on his monitor to get his information and make decisions.
The crew are the history of you, your experiences and interpretations of them, your hopes, fears, ambitions and biases, everything that is you.
The crew discuss and interpret incoming data and make a video to send to the Captains monitor and the Captain, believes, trusts and acts upon it.

The crew have no concept of right or wrong, they just take the information, interpret it through their own perspective, make a video to pass along, if there is missing information, they just make it up, so that they have a complete video.

So we don’t actually see what is in front of our eyes, we see a made up version of it.
We rarely get to see things as they are, unfiltered, without our own unique interpretation, for that we would have to turn around and bypass the crew to look directly out of the window ourselves.

To truly see things as they are without seeing through our own preconceived view is hard…. not impossible, but hard.

Trust no one…. Least of all yourself.

Warp Speed ahead

I should add that this is my argument for the world run by a computer.

Sounds more like an argument against a world run by computers.
Agree we all see the world thru a set of filters, some don't realize it, they think their version is reality when often it's not.

[Mark Hennebury]

I am just thinking that it might be easier to program a computer then reprogram humans.
I think that a computer could make decisions based on an accepted concept of reality rather then our personal distorted ones.
And a computer wouldn't have all of the emotional baggage that we all do.
So it would make more rational decisions, based on what was best for the community, rather then the way we make decisions, which is complicated and often misguided and very often for personal gain.
It would also be quite refreshing not to have to listen to all of the lies and BS from politicians every night.

Sounds more like an argument against a world run by computers.
Agree we all see the world thru a set of filters, some don't realize it, they think their version is reality when often it's not.

[Kev Williams]

I look at the Starship Enterprise much more simplistically, and have to ask: Who, how and where did they build the thing?

[Doug Garson]

I am just thinking that it might be easier to program a computer then reprogram humans.
I think that a computer could make decisions based on an accepted concept of reality rather then our personal distorted ones.
And a computer wouldn't have all of the emotional baggage that we all do.
So it would make more rational decisions, based on what was best for the community, rather then the way we make decisions, which is complicated and often misguided and very often for personal gain.
It would also be quite refreshing not to have to listen to all of the lies and BS from politicians every night.

Yeah but how do you eliminate the distorted view of reality of the person(s) programming the computer?

[Lee DeRaud]

You guys might want to consider the universe as depicted in Ian M. Banks' "Culture" novels. The AIs are self-programmed in, shall we say, interesting ways, but there are a whole bunch of them, so if you don't like the one running your particular environment, there's probably one more suited to your tastes. ("State of the Art" has a section detailing some of the socioeconomic and technological underpinnings.)

Its only real problem is that it (rather conveniently) skips over the interval between "here's the mess we started with" and "Hey, check it out, ain't it cool?"

[Lee DeRaud]

I look at the Starship Enterprise much more simplistically, and have to ask: Who, how and where did they build the thing?

You need one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Fle.../dp/0345340744

[Kevin Jenness]

The AIs are self-programmed in, shall we say, interesting ways, but there are a whole bunch of them, so if you don't like the one running your particular environment, there's probably one more suited to your tastes.

Well, if I could choose the AI running the show then perhaps the world would go as I wish -it's all these other people who think they ought to have an equal vote that screw things up.

[Mark Hennebury]

Maybe Ai could just make an evaluation itself based on managing the planets inhabitant and resources.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

[QUOTE=Mark Hennebury;3154869]Kevin

We are very smart and have incredible abilities to make changes, but we seem held back tremendously from our potential, by the negative side of human nature, and our inability to see what is in front of us.

Nope. Some of us are extremely intelligent in our own little subject. Some have a broad basis of knowledge. Too many of mankind are just plain stupid and hold the population back. Let me explain. as an attorney I helped lots of people with child support cases. I charged a much reduced fee for that service and word got around town. There were times when I represented the parent with custody and got child support started after 4 or 5 years of getting nothing. Those cases made me feel good. There were times when Fathers got railroaded into paying exorbitant amounts because of some fluke in the earnings and I was able to correct those errors. And then there were the times that the initial interview was just amazing.

Me: How many children are involved?
Her: 2, aged 3 and 2 months.
Me. What is his occupation?
Her: He doesn't work, except under the table some times.
Me. How far did he get in school?
Her: I think he graduated
Me; How far did you get in school?
Her: I don't know
Me: How can you not know what grade you completed?
Her: Well I last went to school in 6th grade and then I was homeschooled for a couple years and I quit that.
Me: What jobs have you done?
Her: I have never worked. I shouldn't have to, He should pay support for all three of us.
Me: Are there any other children?
Her: Oh Yeah, he has a 5 yr old and he doesn't ever pay support for that brat either.
(Me: in my mind: What made YOU think you were so special that he would stick around or pay support for your kids if he doesn't pay for one he already had?)

or then there was the child support conference at which my client swore that he could not have been the father because the mother was in Florida for the summer when the baby was concieved. So I asked for a Paternity test. Suddenly the mother bursts into tears. Just sobbing terribly. The conference officer and I just look at each other. Like what the... She asks the mother what is wrong. By this time the sobbing is attracting attention of people in the hallway and other offices. Between sobs the mother at nearly the top of her voice screams: "He knows I was in special ed and can't pass a test!"

[Dave Zellers]

Now I get the point of this thread. If this poor woman could transport to another planet many light years away where they pay all the bills of people like her, her problems would disappear. But most likely only until too many people transport there and break their system.

So no, I don't see any solution. FTL will not save us, we need to save ourselves.

[Keith Outten]

I look at the Starship Enterprise much more simplistically, and have to ask: Who, how and where did they build the thing?

All of the Star Ships were built here in Newport News Virginia at Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company. The same place we built the original Enterprise
Starship Enerprise at NNS.jpg Newport News Shipbuilding Drydock.jpg We build the largest warships in the world, refuel them and de-commission them for over 136 years

[Malcolm McLeod]

All of the Star Ships were built here in Newport News Virginia at Newport News Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Company. The same place we built the original Enterprise
Starship Enerprise at NNS.jpg Newport News Shipbuilding Drydock.jpg We build the largest warships in the world, refuel them and de-commission them for over 136 years

Sounds like you live around some smart people. I am fortunate to be in the same boat (no pun intended): I find lots of smart, caring, giving people around me in all the countries I've worked. I wish we could all be so fortunate.

As for FTL travel, let's suspend any limiting factors imposed by energy requirements & strength of materials. A quick visit to Calculator Soup, with t = (v-u)/a, (where v=final velocity; u=initial velocity; a= acceleration; t=time), and some rough approximations & assumptions (light speed = 186000 mi/sec x 3600 sec/hr = 669,600,000 mph; a = 2Xgravity = 64ft/sec/sec; u = 0 mph), yields t=4262 hrs.

So, a (possibly?) tolerable 2Gs for ~6mos could get you close to light speed. Or, to replicate the Star Ship Enterprise - and my crude estimate of ~3sec for moviedom to reach warp speed - Calculator says you need ~10,000,000Gs (a=320,000,000 ft/sec/sec) to reach light speed.

I am NOT a doctor, but I'm guessing the physiology of either of these - no matter if 6mo @ 2Gs, or 3sec @ 10,000,000Gs - is going to hurt. A lot. YMMV

Note: I did not do a units check on the web math, so please feel free to peer-review my reported results.

Above is not quite the conceptualized ion-drive spacecraft that would accelerate for the 1st half of the journey to the stars, then decel for the 2nd half - with the trip lasting hundreds of years. I can't remember the details, but I recall they estimated a max of 10% of light speed. With a=0.0032ft/sec/sec, Calculator says "~973 yrs to reach 10% of light. (....lot of SWAG here - DIY at your own risk.)

[Ed Mitchell]

Sounds like you live around some smart people. I am fortunate to be in the same boat (no pun intended): I find lots of smart, caring, giving people around me in all the countries I've worked. I wish we could all be so fortunate.

As for FTL travel, let's suspend any limiting factors imposed by energy requirements & strength of materials. A quick visit to Calculator Soup, with t = (v-u)/a, (where v=final velocity; u=initial velocity; a= acceleration; t=time), and some rough approximations & assumptions (light speed = 186000 mi/sec x 3600 sec/hr = 669,600,000 mph; a = 2Xgravity = 64ft/sec/sec; u = 0 mph), yields t=4262 hrs.

So, a (possibly?) tolerable 2Gs for ~6mos could get you close to light speed. Or, to replicate the Star Ship Enterprise - and my crude estimate of ~3sec for moviedom to reach warp speed - Calculator says you need ~10,000,000Gs (a=320,000,000 ft/sec/sec) to reach light speed.

I am NOT a doctor, but I'm guessing the physiology of either of these - no matter if 6mo @ 2Gs, or 3sec @ 10,000,000Gs - is going to hurt. A lot. YMMV

Note: I did not do a units check on the web math, so please feel free to peer-review my reported results.

Above is not quite the conceptualized ion-drive spacecraft that would accelerate for the 1st half of the journey to the stars, then decel for the 2nd half - with the trip lasting hundreds of years. I can't remember the details, but I recall they estimated a max of 10% of light speed. With a=0.0032ft/sec/sec, Calculator says "~973 yrs to reach 10% of light. (....lot of SWAG here - DIY at your own risk.)

Yeah, I think your arithmetic is close enough

Once in space, at only 1G constant acceleration, you'll be at light speed in around a year
https://space.stackexchange.com/ques...-get-you-there

Even 1/10 light speed will get you to the rocky planets of nearby stars in well under a human lifetime, but relativity says that time is from an external observer's POV, the travelers themselves should not perceive that much time elapsed, so it should be less of a problem for them.

No matter what we might think of such a trip, we have no choice but to make it. Becoming space nomads is our only hope of survival.

Our sun will make this planet too hot to survive in around 500 million years, and it will burn out in a couple billion years. Plenty of time, but there is an expiration date. Even after we make it to the next star and the next and the next, we'll have to keep running to survive, but eventually we'll have nowhere left to run -- even at light speed we can't make it out of our local galactic group before the heat death of the universe, so we're SOL unless we invent some pretty sci-fi stuff