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Thread: FTL will not save us

  1. #1
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    FTL will not save us

    All the reliable science says (Faster Than Light) travel will not be possible. So looking for earthlike planets is academic, it will not solve our population problem. While limited communication is possible, nobody is ever going to go there. We will be surviving ,or not, on just our tiny blue planet forever.

    Do you have any solutions?

  2. #2
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    I guess I don’t see a population problem. In any case I’ll be dead within 30 years and won’t care if one develops.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  3. #3
    You are clearly overlooking needlecasts, wormholes, warp drives and ansibles.

  4. #4
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    Don’t stop dreaming.
    Take me to the hotel - Baggage gone, oh well . . .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    You are clearly overlooking needlecasts, wormholes, warp drives and ansibles.
    and using the spice to fold space.
    ~mike

    scope creep

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike stenson View Post
    and using the spice to fold space.
    Particularly timely with the new movie……Rod.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    All the reliable science says (Faster Than Light) travel will not be possible. So looking for earthlike planets is academic, it will not solve our population problem. While limited communication is possible, nobody is ever going to go there. We will be surviving ,or not, on just our tiny blue planet forever.

    Do you have any solutions?
    Tom, I think we’re going to solve our own population issues through education, and I am becoming more hopeful that we will wean ourselves off fossil fuels in a reasonable time frame…..Rod.

  8. #8
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    Or terraforming Mars.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Tom, I think we’re going to solve our own population issues through education, and I am becoming more hopeful that we will wean ourselves off fossil fuels in a reasonable time frame…..Rod.

    I'll have what he is smoking......

  10. #10
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    People are stupid! They have always been Stupid, and are getting more stupid!

    Pfizer could come up with a vaccine for that.... but people are too stupid to take it.

    The only hope for our survival is if we could bring back Vlad the impailer, then everyone would behave, seeing as how that probably wont happen, then artificial Intelligence should take over control and manage the planet.
    It would make a pleasant change from rich people running the planet by manipulating the stupid masses to do their bidding and keep them in the lap of luxury.
    It should be fairly obvious to anyone that this planets economy runs on the understanding that people are stupid, arrogant, egotistical, tribal, childlike, easily manipulated and controlled.
    If you have viewed a few threads on the forum and that hasn't convinced you, how about politics, religion, art, fashion, Covid etc..


    9. Barnett Newman, Onement V (1952)

    Christie’s New York, July 10, 2020

    $30,920,000






    Barnett Newman, Onement V, 1952. Courtesy of Christie’s Images Ltd. 2020.


    The second-highest result at Christie’s “One” sale was a tie, but the first lot to sell for $30.9 million was one of Barnett Newman’s six “Onement” paintings. Considered to be the artist’s breakthrough series, they are the first works in which he incorporated his signature “zip,” a vertical stripe in a contrasting shade running down the center of the canvas, cutting through the monochromatic pool of pure pigment and giving the impression of color reverberating back and forth. “I realized that I had been emptying space instead of filling it, and that now my line made the whole area come to life,” Newman said of the series. Part of a generation of painters that included Rothko and Jackson Pollock

    , and operating independent of the burden of European aesthetics, Newman firmly believed that American artists could make a fresh start, and paint as if painting had never existed before. It was about proposing an entirely new direction in art, shifting from its obsession with beauty to the search for truth.




    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Tom, I think we’re going to solve our own population issues through education, and I am becoming more hopeful that we will wean ourselves off fossil fuels in a reasonable time frame…..Rod.

  11. #11
    My view is that we will continue to have a division between those who have and those who don't - and that it will only get worse as time goes by. Countries with an educated population generally have a birth rate that is below replacement, while those countries that do not have an educated population (think poor countries) have a birth rate that exceeds replacement.

    The United States population is growing but primarily by immigration (birthrate of 1.7 which is far below replacement). Japan's population is declining because their birthrate is low (1.36, it's very expensive to raise a child in Japan) and there's not much immigration into the country.

    I visited Egypt recently and it's a good example of population growth in a poor country. There are some rich people, but the vast majority are poor and living in housing that is quite crowded - with the problems of trash and crime that usually goes with crowded conditions. Those poor people tend to have more than two children. As life gets worse for those people they will want to immigrate to other, wealthier, countries, and that will cause significant problems. The wealthier countries already have problems with their poor citizens. The homeless population seems to continue to grow and jobs for those without a college degree pay very little and are being replaced by automation.

    I suspect that wealthier countries will eventually provide subsistence payments to their poor citizens in order to keep them from revolution. The wealthy will consider it just the cost of being safe, just as we pay for our military to keep us safe from external threats.

    There's a lot of talk about "equity" but the major factor in a child's success in life is the success of their parents. Children of well educated, relatively wealthy parents, generally go to better schools, get help when needed, have a decent role model and have contacts for college entrance and jobs through their parents' friends. These things can't be "given" to children of poor families.

    Mike

    [A few birth rates: (replacement is about 2.2)
    England - 1.58
    Germany - 1.54
    France - 1.87 which reflects the policies in France that support birth mothers
    Spain - 1.24
    South Korea - 1.00
    Egypt - 3.28
    Niger - 6.9
    Congo - 5.9]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 11-10-2021 at 12:19 AM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I guess I don’t see a population problem. In any case I’ll be dead within 30 years and won’t care if one develops.
    Maybe not today.

    From an article by Howard Hendrix in Analog Nov '21, Guest Editorial: Population and Genius

    Population in 1 billion increments : date reached : years to reach that population increment:

    1 billion : 1803 : estimated several hundred thousand years
    2 billion : 1927 : 124 years later
    3 billion : 1960 : 33 years
    4 billion : 1975 : 15 years
    5 billion : 1987 : 12 years
    6 billion : 1999 : 12 years
    7 billion : 2011 : 12 years
    8 billion : 2024 : 13 years estimated

    So the rate of increase has slowed a bit. But when will we hit 9 billion? 10 billion?
    Looking at this makes me wonder how many billions the planet can feed. And when will that happen?

    JKJ

  13. #13
    So many thoughts on this, but to simplify those thoughts, we who live in the Garden of Eden must remember that Mother Earth bats last!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post

    I suspect that wealthier countries will eventually provide subsistence payments to their poor citizens in order to keep them from revolution. The wealthy will consider it just the cost of being safe, just as we pay for our military to keep us safe from external threats.

    Wouldn't a better approach be to limit the maximum differential between lowest wage rate and highest wage rate in a company? Why should the CEO of a company take home millions if he can't figure out how to pay a living wage to all employees and still make a profit. Through his company's 35-year history, Leonard Lee, founder of Lee Valley Tools, has ensured that the highest-paid worker never makes more than 10 times the wage of the lowest-paid worker. By contrast, that ratio averaged 122-to-one last year at Canada's biggest companies, up from 84-to-one a decade earlier, according to data prepared for The Globe and Mail. The maker and retailer of woodworking and garden tools distributes a quarter of pretax profit to its staff of 850 each year, with the lowest-paid cleaner garnering the same as the CEO. Profit-sharing isn't the only unusual aspect of its corporate culture. The privately-held company has never had layoffs and pays its executives no bonuses. "You get tremendous loyalty from employees if they enjoy their work and they are participating in the income and they have the authority that they need to execute their job," Mr. Lee, 75, said in an interview at his Ottawa headquarters, surrounded by antique wooden tools.(Note this is from an article eight years ago)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bender View Post
    All the reliable science says (Faster Than Light) travel will not be possible. So looking for earthlike planets is academic, it will not solve our population problem. While limited communication is possible, nobody is ever going to go there. We will be surviving ,or not, on just our tiny blue planet forever.

    Do you have any solutions?
    Many years ago someone predicted the first earth people to travel to another solar system will be greeted by earth people who left for the same solar system after them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I guess I don’t see a population problem. In any case I’ll be dead within 30 years and won’t care if one develops.
    That may be one of the major failing points of humans, to not care about things they feel won't have an impact on them.

    Currently we are experiencing a natural event lowering the human population by less than 1%. We do not know if the long term effects of this event will cause a lull in population growth.

    9. Barnett Newman, Onement V (1952)

    Christie’s New York, July 10, 2020

    $30,920,000
    Proof that some people have too much money.

    [A few birth rates: (replacement is about 2.2)
    England - 1.58
    Germany - 1.54
    France - 1.87 which reflects the policies in France that support birth mothers
    Spain - 1.24
    South Korea - 1.00
    Egypt - 3.28
    Niger - 6.9
    Congo - 5.9]
    Compared to England or Germany how many of those born in Niger or Congo will live to see their 20th birthday? How about 30th or 40th?

    is the replacement rate the same for every country rich or poor?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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