Clearvue 1800

[Stan Mijal]

Woody, I am late to the thread and have read the other's postings which give good info. I am perplexed as to how your system can have good air flow out the exit( to the filter) and yet poor air flow on the vacuum side. As other have noted the most likely culprit is blockage or partial blockage of your ducting to the tool(s). Another possibility is that the impeller is not tightly attached to the motor shaft via the connector. If it allows the impeller to spin, but with a lot of slippage, you will see airflow, but not much pressure or suction since the impeller is not delivering the full capacity of the motor. If you pull the motor from the top of the cyclone, loosen the screws in the connector, and observe the motor shaft for evidence of the impeller spinning( wear marks or groves on motor shaft). If no evidence of spinning, replace and re-tighten connector ( see instruction s on Clearvue web site being careful not to over tighten and break the cap screws on the connector.

[Jim Becker]

I ont think so but how do I check without disassembly? Ive had the exhaust outlet disconnected several times and air flow out was strong but weak suction at drops. Dont know how I could get blockage anyway because Ive only been doing testing at various machines. Is there an easy way to eliminate this possibility? The hvac tape is a bear to get off.

Woody

At this point, I wouldn't hesitate top investigate the duct work even if it meant disassembly. You have a system that should be able to move heaven and earth a few feet through a tube and it's clearly not getting the air it needs to do so. (That's how dust collection works...it's not "suction" like with a shop vac...it's moving large amounts of air at a high velocity which in turn moves the "stuff".)

Easy way to test...disconnect the blower from the main and connect a 10' hose to it. (don't turn it on without some kind of duct or hose in front of it!) That will tell you if the duct work is the problem or there's a serious issue with the blower.

[woody dixon]

Woody, I am late to the thread and have read the other's postings which give good info. I am perplexed as to how your system can have good air flow out the exit( to the filter) and yet poor air flow on the vacuum side. As other have noted the most likely culprit is blockage or partial blockage of your ducting to the tool(s). Another possibility is that the impeller is not tightly attached to the motor shaft via the connector. If it allows the impeller to spin, but with a lot of slippage, you will see airflow, but not much pressure or suction since the impeller is not delivering the full capacity of the motor. If you pull the motor from the top of the cyclone, loosen the screws in the connector, and observe the motor shaft for evidence of the impeller spinning( wear marks or groves on motor shaft). If no evidence of spinning, replace and re-tighten connector ( see instruction s on Clearvue web site being careful not to over tighten and break the cap screws on the connector.

Stan,

I had this concern earlier and talked with clearvue about this. I had to put the motor between my ceiling joists myself. To do so I put the motor up without the impeller which I attached from underneath. From that position it would not go all the way flush to the end of the motor shaft. My key is also too long and sticks out. Clearvue tells me this is ok and I have checked the impeller to make sure it is not moving on the shaft. Also, my amperage off the contactor is full running amperage, which I dont think it would be if the impeller was slipping.

In any event after redoing my gamma seal lids on the filter plenum my suction is much improved. When said before outflow was good I really dont have any point of reference. It would be a major undertaking to take the motor down but i will if you think that is the cause. Am I incorrect in my conclusion that it is not slipping if I have full amperage?

Woody

[Rush Paul]

Am I incorrect in my conclusion that it is not slipping...

Woody, it is not slipping. You are correct. The connection Clear Vue supplies for joining the impeller to the motor shaft is bullet proof.

[Chris Parks]

I used to sell Clearvue cyclones and I have seen many installed.

Remove all the ducting and exhaust and start the cyclone and see what happens. If it does not fix the airflow problem the machine itself has an issue. If the machine itself has no issue firstly reconnect the ducting and test then the exhaust and systematically eliminate issues that way. Leaks in the ducting or blast gates are a non event apart from being a bit annoying because they disappear as soon as a blast gate is opened, the open blast gate lowers the static pressure that causes the leaks. Why people get concerned about leaks in ducting systems is a bit of a mystery to me when a blower as big as the CV is being used as they have plenty of overhead air flow capacity.

If the machine has a problem either post photos of the fan housing here or send them to Paul B. If the photos don't show any issue pull it apart photographing as you go. I have never heard of a problem like this and I doubt Paul has either.

[Rush Paul]

Excellent reply from Chris Parks. Trust what he says.

[Stan Mijal]

Stan,

I had this concern earlier and talked with clearvue about this. I had to put the motor between my ceiling joists myself. To do so I put the motor up without the impeller which I attached from underneath. From that position it would not go all the way flush to the end of the motor shaft. My key is also too long and sticks out. Clearvue tells me this is ok and I have checked the impeller to make sure it is not moving on the shaft. Also, my amperage off the contactor is full running amperage, which I dont think it would be if the impeller was slipping.

In any event after redoing my gamma seal lids on the filter plenum my suction is much improved. When said before outflow was good I really dont have any point of reference. It would be a major undertaking to take the motor down but i will if you think that is the cause. Am I incorrect in my conclusion that it is not slipping if I have full amperage?

Woody

Woody,

If you are drawing full amperage then the impeller is firmly connected and no rotation about the shaft is happening. It was just a "stab in the dark" after all previous comments and things you have tried. Personally I would start at square one, disconnecting the Clearvue fro your duct work and run to see if the cyclone itself is functioning correctly. Check the rotation of the impeller when under power( when turned off and running down) If the impeller is running backwards you would lose much of your "suction" but still notice some air flow. If the cyclone is checking out ok, then its in your duct work.
Amperage draw is highest when the system is running with all(or most) duct work open * should be seen with duct work disconnected from system) and lowest when duct work is attached and all blast gates in closed position. Glad to see taping to seal cyclone parts has increased performance, but with 5 hp you should get good air movement even with "leaks" .

[Leigh Betsch]

Or maybe jut reverse the wires and see what happens.

What would happen if a 15" fan was installed in a 16" housing?

[woody dixon]

I used to sell Clearvue cyclones and I have seen many installed.

Remove all the ducting and exhaust and start the cyclone and see what happens. If it does not fix the airflow problem the machine itself has an issue. If the machine itself has no issue firstly reconnect the ducting and test then the exhaust and systematically eliminate issues that way. Leaks in the ducting or blast gates are a non event apart from being a bit annoying because they disappear as soon as a blast gate is opened, the open blast gate lowers the static pressure that causes the leaks. Why people get concerned about leaks in ducting systems is a bit of a mystery to me when a blower as big as the CV is being used as they have plenty of overhead air flow capacity.

If the machine has a problem either post photos of the fan housing here or send them to Paul B. If the photos don't show any issue pull it apart photographing as you go. I have never heard of a problem like this and I doubt Paul has either.

Chris,

One problem with the whole process is I dont know what proper airflow and suction feel like for the clearvue . My experience is with a harbor freight and the intitial flow and suction at my drops didnt feel significantly more than that one. As of yesterday after redoing my filter plenum, the flow and suction is stronger. How do I know it is operating at full capacity? That is why i posted here. I hoped to find someone near me who had a system up and running where I could see and feel the flow. I had thought of trying the tape measure test but Paul B. advised against it because of damage concerns. I did hold one in the palm of my hand under my dual 4 inch blast gate and did feel some lift but didnt let it go. I totally agree that people shouldnt be overly concerned with leaks in general. I bought the clearvue which was overkill for my small shop so I wouldnt have to worry about that. Most of the advice I have gotten says there must be a leak. Do you think leaks around my gamma seal lids attaching the filters could cause insufficient air flow to my drops?

I did disconnect the exhaust from the housing and did a lot of air. No appreciable difference in flow or suction at the drops however. Again dont know how much air is supposed to be there. Also, should the drops have normal suction and flow with the exhaust completely disconnected? Would that flow indicate there was not likely to be an obstruction in the intake ducting? I appreciate your trying to help.

Woody

[woody dixon]

Or maybe jut reverse the wires and see what happens.

What would happen if a 15" fan was installed in a 16" housing?

I dont know but how do I know if I have a 16 inch housing? The impeller is definitely rotating counterclockwise. I did have a strange thing happen the last time I checked this when powering down. Near the end it seemed the impeller reversed itself and went clockwise, only briefly, but by the time it slowed enough to clearly see rotation, it was rotating correctly. I assumed this was an optical illusion.

Woody

[Chris Parks]

Disconnect the exhaust and inlet and see if the airflow increases then report back. The cyclone has immense air flow and you will immediately know if it has increased. Looking at the inlet does the impeller go from right to left? Being a single phase motor it can't rotate the wrong way so DOR should not be a problem. Even if it does there is not a huge difference in air flow anyway but a distinct whistling sound does occur.

[Kevin Jenness]

One problem with the whole process is I dont know what proper airflow and suction feel like for the clearvue

Is it doing what it needs to do? Can you run material through the planer at 1/16" depth of cut without chip impressions? Is there obvious dust escape off the table saw with suction through the cabinet and an overhead guard? Can you get hold of a particle counter like a Dylos to see what air quality you are getting?

If the blower is rotating in the right direction at full speed and drawing rated amperage, the filter bank and drop box are well sealed and the ducting and machine hookups are properly sized a system like that should be working well even with minor duct leaks. Maybe if you post some photos of the setup it would help identify a problem.

[John K Jordan]

Woody, I haven't had time to follow the whole thread. Did you check to make sure there was no leak in the bin? I suspect you did. If you have someone release a big handful or small container of sawdust and shavings into the open end of a duct while watching the cyclone (with good lighting) there should be a distinct spiral of the dust around the outside, the sawdust gradually descending until still spiraling, it falls into the bin.

I'd use a mix of fines and large shavings but a mix of shredded paper, cardboard, grass trimmings, floor sweepings, etc should also work. (Just don't vacuum up any cat litter like I did once unless you want to cloud the inside surface of the ClearVue cone!) If there is a serious leak in the bin all the sawdust might not make it to the bin but be pulled off the cone somewhere in the middle of the spiral and pulled up into the central tube and passed to the filters. If there is a minor leak this might not be so obvious. If the cyclone is working correctly even talcum-power fine dust will be deposited into the bin. There should be almost nothing coming out of the exhaust towards and into the filters. After 6 years of use I see only a tablespoon or so of fine dust in the cleanout box below my filters. You could disconnect the filters while doing this just in case so any dust sent that way doesn't make it into the filters. Maybe hold a cloth bag on the end to collect anything that might come through.

If you've already tried this, then nevermind!

A thought: Another test might give you an idea of the relative amount of suction between your cyclone and one that is remote, like mine. Cut a small piece of thin plywood/hardboard,plexiiglas etc that will cover the end of your duct, maybe at least 6" square so it could be used on a vertical 6" duct as part of the test. Perhaps screw a cup hook into the middle of one side and let it be pulled tightly against the end of the duct. (The duct should be smooth or have a PVC connector on the end so it seals well.) Hang a increasing amount of weight on the hook until the suction will no longer hold the plywood and weight. I'd try this with both the 4" duct and the 6" duct to see any difference, horizontally if necessary but seems a vertical duct would be better. Report findings and I and/or someone else will repeat it with their system. If there is a big difference in suction it should be obvious. If the difference is small you can go on with your life. You might do this with and without the filters attached to qualify that varible.

Mine has a 5hp motor and a 15" impeller, 6" PVC ducts.
If you choose to do this be sure to restate your system specs along with the results.

JKJ

[Leigh Betsch]

In an effort to help diagnose the problem I reversed the wires on my motor. It didn't change the rotation so I guess its not as simple as switching wires. Mine rotates clockwise when viewed from the motor end (top down) and counterclockwise when viewed from the bottom up. I couldn't find a good way to measure my blower housing diameter.

[George Yetka]

The dust in the cabinet will only get pulled out if you pick it up and put it in the path of least resistance. As for the air at the blastgates, dont worry about it I can have multiple gates open with no issues. The Cv1800 has enough pull that I leave the gate on my jointer/planer open always. And open and close the rest for use.