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Thread: Clearvue 1800

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    A thought: Another test might give you an idea of the relative amount of suction between your cyclone and one that is remote, like mine. Cut a small piece of thin plywood/hardboard,plexiiglas etc that will cover the end of your duct, maybe at least 6" square so it could be used on a vertical 6" duct as part of the test. Perhaps screw a cup hook into the middle of one side and let it be pulled tightly against the end of the duct. (The duct should be smooth or have a PVC connector on the end so it seals well.) Hang a increasing amount of weight on the hook until the suction will no longer hold the plywood and weight. I'd try this with both the 4" duct and the 6" duct to see any difference, horizontally if necessary but seems a vertical duct would be better. Report findings and I and/or someone else will repeat it with their system. If there is a big difference in suction it should be obvious. If the difference is small you can go on with your life. You might do this with and without the filters attached to qualify that varible.

    Mine has a 5hp motor and a 15" impeller, 6" PVC ducts.
    If you choose to do this be sure to restate your system specs along with the results.

    JKJ
    Expect the 6" duct to support about 16 pounds, half that for the 4". Should be done vertically.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Woody, I haven't had time to follow the whole thread. Did you check to make sure there was no leak in the bin? I suspect you did. If you have someone release a big handful or small container of sawdust and shavings into the open end of a duct while watching the cyclone (with good lighting) there should be a distinct spiral of the dust around the outside, the sawdust gradually descending until still spiraling, it falls into the bin.

    I'd use a mix of fines and large shavings but a mix of shredded paper, cardboard, grass trimmings, floor sweepings, etc should also work. (Just don't vacuum up any cat litter like I did once unless you want to cloud the inside surface of the ClearVue cone!) If there is a serious leak in the bin all the sawdust might not make it to the bin but be pulled off the cone somewhere in the middle of the spiral and pulled up into the central tube and passed to the filters. If there is a minor leak this might not be so obvious. If the cyclone is working correctly even talcum-power fine dust will be deposited into the bin. There should be almost nothing coming out of the exhaust towards and into the filters. After 6 years of use I see only a tablespoon or so of fine dust in the cleanout box below my filters. You could disconnect the filters while doing this just in case so any dust sent that way doesn't make it into the filters. Maybe hold a cloth bag on the end to collect anything that might come through.

    If you've already tried this, then nevermind!

    A thought: Another test might give you an idea of the relative amount of suction between your cyclone and one that is remote, like mine. Cut a small piece of thin plywood/hardboard,plexiiglas etc that will cover the end of your duct, maybe at least 6" square so it could be used on a vertical 6" duct as part of the test. Perhaps screw a cup hook into the middle of one side and let it be pulled tightly against the end of the duct. (The duct should be smooth or have a PVC connector on the end so it seals well.) Hang a increasing amount of weight on the hook until the suction will no longer hold the plywood and weight. I'd try this with both the 4" duct and the 6" duct to see any difference, horizontally if necessary but seems a vertical duct would be better. Report findings and I and/or someone else will repeat it with their system. If there is a big difference in suction it should be obvious. If the difference is small you can go on with your life. You might do this with and without the filters attached to qualify that varible.

    Mine has a 5hp motor and a 15" impeller, 6" PVC ducts.
    If you choose to do this be sure to restate your system specs along with the results.

    JKJ
    Here is a video of a test I made earlier this morning. The box is 2.5 lb and was sucked up tight to the bottom of 6 inch flex disconnected from my jointer. Would this now be the correct air flow and suction. If so, were the gaps in the filter plenum attachment with the gamma seal lids the culprit? I am confused about that because I thought that side had a negligible effect on performance. I really would like to have a better understanding of this> I appreciate everyone's patience and help. Just found out I cant upload and attach the video. Cant use regular attachment because file extension not recognized and cant use video insert because it requests a url. Tried taking a pic on my iphone and uploading but doesnt recognize heic extension. I have saved video to my computer . Anyone know how to now attach to reply?

    Woody

  3. #48
    Ok. Just ran another test along the lines of John's suggestion. I disconnected the drop to jointer, a 6 inch wye, so it was not completely vertical. I took a pack of printer paper(500 sheets) which weighs about 5.5 lb. If i hold it to the pvc open connector it will stick and not fall. It seems to be near the limit though. Am I now at the correct air flow and suction?

    Woody

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
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    109
    Quote Originally Posted by woody dixon View Post
    Ok. Just ran another test along the lines of John's suggestion. I disconnected the drop to jointer, a 6 inch wye, so it was not completely vertical. I took a pack of printer paper(500 sheets) which weighs about 5.5 lb. If i hold it to the pvc open connector it will stick and not fall. It seems to be near the limit though. Am I now at the correct air flow and suction?
    Woody, this sounds like you're where you should be on suction. But keep in mind that airflow is the real goal with this system.

    Of course, the real test is whether it will pull the 25' tape measure out of your hand and into the cyclone. (Just kidding, but I've in fact had something very similar happen to me, and you've seen the video.)
    Last edited by Rush Paul; 11-08-2021 at 11:10 AM.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    836
    Quote Originally Posted by woody dixon View Post
    Ok. Just ran another test along the lines of John's suggestion. I disconnected the drop to jointer, a 6 inch wye, so it was not completely vertical. I took a pack of printer paper(500 sheets) which weighs about 5.5 lb. If i hold it to the pvc open connector it will stick and not fall. It seems to be near the limit though. Am I now at the correct air flow and suction?

    Woody
    That seems a little low. I would expect about double that on a 45° fitting.

    I see you have current measuring capability. Would you take some current readings, one with all blast gates closed and another with all open?
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  6. #51
    Holds a ream of paper? Seems "a little low"?

    Hook up your machines you've got plenty of capacity.

    Or talk to Clear Vue.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298
    Quote Originally Posted by woody dixon View Post
    ...Just found out I cant upload and attach the video. Cant use regular attachment because file extension not recognized and cant use video insert because it requests a url. Tried taking a pic on my iphone and uploading but doesnt recognize heic extension. I have saved video to my computer . Anyone know how to now attach to reply?
    If you have a web site you put it there then reference it with the Insert Video button. If no web page, you can upload the video to YouTube then attach it to a message or simply post the link to the video. The YouTube video can set to Unlisted to hide it from the rest of the world.

    I'm headed out to haul the tractor for some site work so I probably can't try any tests today.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    That seems a little low. I would expect about double that on a 45° fitting.

    I see you have current measuring capability. Would you take some current readings, one with all blast gates closed and another with all open?
    David,

    I have disconnected 2 drops and 1 now has no gate. I tried hanging a 10 lb dumbell off a cup hook screwed into 3/4 inch plywood covering a wye drop and the booard wanted to slide off at a diagonal. I am going to a shop to cut a small piece of 6 inch pvc to hook up a 45 and do a vertical test. I can do the current readings after rehooking everything up. When i took readings before from the leads from the contactor to the motor with the gates closed, i think, i got slightly less than 10 amps on each leg and 245 volts across the connections. im told this indicates the motor was up to full speed and operating correctly. Will let you know how the vertical test turns out.

    Woody

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
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    3,085
    Why not just measure the suction with a homemade water u tube manometer?

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
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    2,710
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Frank View Post
    Why not just measure the suction with a homemade water u tube manometer?
    That is what I was going to suggest AFTER doing the basic fault finding that the OP appears not to want to do so I will bail out here and let others resolve the problem if indeed it has a problem which I doubt. The manometer will show the true story but it won't isolate any problem and that has to be the first step but apparently that is too hard. If the manometer indicated a correct reading there is no problem so I guess that is the other way of approaching it.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  11. #56
    Yes there was a problem. I have been talking, emailing, texting and exchanging videos and pics with Paul Bushey. We went over everything Monday including the changes I made to the filter mountings and he tells me that could account for low flow/suction which substantially improved Sunday after remounting with no gaps under the lids. Today I got a 6 inch port to hold a 10 lb weight hooked on a board. I also could feel the suction on a tape measure which I had in my palm and would have been sucked into the line if i let it. Paul had another idea for miter saw dust collection which i will try when i get my saw working again.

    I want to thank everyone who took time to try to help. I had many suggestions on a fix, most of which I tried, all of which i considered. Chris, I didnt ignore your suggestions. Paul insisted earlier the motor was fine after talking with me, seeing video and pics and listening to my comments about performance. You were not at all concerned with leaks and if air flow was ok when flex exhaust was disconnected, seemed unlikely there was any obstruction. Paul also was not suggesting I disconnect everything. The unusual filter arrangement with the gamma seal lids was worrisome since very few use these and when i saw the gaps thats what I concentrated on the last few days. Nobody mentioned a manometer until after hopefully everything has been resolved.

    In any event I think it is working now. I want to thank everyone for your support and help> I appreciate it more than you can imagine.

    Woody

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by woody dixon View Post
    Yes there was a problem. I have been talking, emailing, texting and exchanging videos and pics with Paul Bushey. We went over everything Monday including the changes I made to the filter mountings and he tells me that could account for low flow/suction which substantially improved Sunday after remounting with no gaps under the lids. Today I got a 6 inch port to hold a 10 lb weight hooked on a board. I also could feel the suction on a tape measure which I had in my palm and would have been sucked into the line if i let it. Paul had another idea for miter saw dust collection which i will try when i get my saw working again.

    I want to thank everyone who took time to try to help. I had many suggestions on a fix, most of which I tried, all of which i considered. Chris, I didnt ignore your suggestions. Paul insisted earlier the motor was fine after talking with me, seeing video and pics and listening to my comments about performance. You were not at all concerned with leaks and if air flow was ok when flex exhaust was disconnected, seemed unlikely there was any obstruction. Paul also was not suggesting I disconnect everything. The unusual filter arrangement with the gamma seal lids was worrisome since very few use these and when i saw the gaps thats what I concentrated on the last few days. Nobody mentioned a manometer until after hopefully everything has been resolved.

    In any event I think it is working now. I want to thank everyone for your support and help> I appreciate it more than you can imagine.

    Woody
    Are you saying that suction issues were caused by a problem with the filters on the exhaust side of the cyclone?

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
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    3,085
    I am glad you got it sorted out. I think people could have been more helpful if you had posted pictures. Without seeing your setup people are making their best guess.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Are you saying that suction issues were caused by a problem with the filters on the exhaust side of the cyclone?
    Yes. I explained everything to Paul Bushey, showed him where the gaps were where the filters were mounted, how I remounted them eliminating the gaps and he said that could have been the cause of the air flow/suction issues I had at my machine drops. Right after that change testing showed a huge difference in flow and suction.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by woody dixon View Post
    Yes. I explained everything to Paul Bushey, showed him where the gaps were where the filters were mounted, how I remounted them eliminating the gaps and he said that could have been the cause of the air flow/suction issues I had at my machine drops. Right after that change testing showed a huge difference in flow and suction.
    That is quite interesting and contradictory to everything I think I know about the subject. In my experience increased backpressure caused by clogged filters decreases system airflow and suction, and I have read and have no reason to doubt that systems without filters (direct exhaust) have better performance than those with filters. Do you have an explanation for your contrary results? I am having a hard time wrapping my small brain around this.

    As Larry said, some pictures of your setup would be helpful.

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