Anyone using Lamb Tools Parallel fences on an SCM/Minimax or Felder?

[mark mcfarlane]

Fritz and Franz are quick to drop in and out of the table and mine have flipstops so I can straightline a piece with the stops out of the way and dimension it with stops down, compared to parallel fences that typically are less handy to set up and must be retracted or removed for an initial cut. ....

Kevin, which flipstop are you using? Is it sturdy enough for this application? Flipstops would be handy on Fritz and Franz, I'm frequently taking mine off just to do a first straight line rip.

I guess this shows another advantage of Fritz and Franz: since both leading and trailing jigs go all the way to the blade it is very easy to quickly set up a straight line rip on new lumber, you know exactly where the blade is going to enter and exit the board being cut.

The other advantage I mentioned earlier, compared to Lamb's parallel guide, is you don't need to clamp the board being cut. Friction on the sandpaper on Fritz and Frans faces holds the board through the cut.

Lamb's parallel guide doesn't require any space at the end of the cut, so you can make a longer cut with it.

[mark mcfarlane]

I made my F&F out of scrap BB plywood, some aluminum tee track, some surplus threaded knobs and a pair of stick on tapes with dual markings (metric and Imperial) Oh, and a little sick on sandpaper on the faces. The stops were scraps of cherry. Make a basic setup, use it for awhile and then decide what the "ultimate" would be "for you".

Derek, as Jim said, these are pretty easy to make, a couple hours at most.

I layered and glued up two slightly oversized pieces of baltic birch, Square up the block on your slider. Now add the runner that goes into the sliding table slot such that when you lay the BB block onto the slider and move through the blade you are going to trim off a little bit - your cut reference.

Go ahead and run the one block through the blade to create this 'cut reference face'.

Next flip the BB block upside down so the runner is above the board and the 'cut reference face' is against the crosscut fence. Cut the block into two pieces, perpendicular to the 'slot runner'. You might want the rear block a little bigger to hold a handle. This is the only 'calibration' cut you need to be fussy about, cutting perpendicular to the runner, and even if you are off a little it won't matter.

Route grooves for T-Track and you are good to go. I added sticky tape rulers to the T-Tracks on both blocks on my first jig but when I build my next set I'm just using one ruler. You can measure one side and then push Fritz and Frans together to manually set the second stop block by feel. Using one ruler and 'feeling' the offsets between stops is more accurate for my 65 year old eyes.

[Jim Becker]

My version 2.0 of the F&F will be fancier when I get a shop building up and have a slider again. But yea...really easy to make so they fit the operator's needs!

[Erik Loza]

...The clamps are mainly used for material that needs to be held down to the scorer...

UNLESS we're also talking about combined saw/shaper (which I believe the OP is getting), where the clamp would be important for endgrain or slotting work on the shaper, too.

Getting back to the eccentric vs. pneumatic-thing, the deal with OEM eccentric clamps is that they have a pronounced "sweet range" where the pressure is just right and that takes some getting used-to. I think Sam even suggests a little patch of shoe leather between the manual clamp and the workpiece, to take up the slop (see attached pic). Of course, every time you put a different thickness workpiece on the slider, you have to adjust the height of the clamp and find the sweet spot all over again.

One additional quirk on some Italian machines is that the plastic mount bushing of the post on the eccentric clamp indexes into a T-slot in the extrusion of the crosscut fence. This means that as you throw the lever to secure the workpiece, that bushing can actually lift/twist the crosscut fence extrusion away from the sliding table due to the amount of leverage those things are capable of generating. Felders use a different mounting system for the clamp post, so don't create this issue. With pneumatic clamps, the pressure curve is 100% linear, so none of that happens.

Erik

[derek labian]

Thanks for the feedback. I can see there are advantages to both. When I purchase two tools with similar purposes, one often gets neglected to obsolescence. They seem to serve basic similar purposes and I'd be interested to know if the SMC'ers with the parallel fence also use an F&F and which they prefer.

Erik, thanks for the exposition on the OEM clamps, it makes a lot of sense regarding problems you can encounter. I hadn't really read anything (good or bad) about them before. I am going to order the pneumatic clamps.

[Erik Loza]

Derek, I'm sure you will be very pleased with Mac's clamps. On your machines, I would suggest ordering a bunch of Aigner mounting rails and a few extension tables from either Martin or Simantech. This will involve drilling on your part but you will really want them. I would also order a Euro-style jointer guard from Parts Pronto. Everyone loathes the orange pork chop. If you want a power feeder, I would suggest one of the Comatic DC units. Also, you need to buy at least one thing from me (), so I would get a FAT300 table. Pat Rice and others will tell you useful these are.

Erik

[mark mcfarlane]

...

One additional quirk on some Italian machines is that the plastic mount bushing of the post on the eccentric clamp indexes into a T-slot in the extrusion of the crosscut fence. This means that as you throw the lever to secure the workpiece, that bushing can actually lift/twist the crosscut fence extrusion away from the sliding table due to the amount of leverage those things are capable of generating. ...

Erik

Which machine is that Erik?

On my 2017ish Minimax CU300 the eccentric clamps go into the aluminum slider. I don't see any way they could even attach to the crosscut fence given the huge T-Slot plates on the clamps. You picture also appears to show the eccentric clamps fixed to the slider, not the fence.

[derek labian]

On your machines, I would suggest ordering a bunch of Aigner mounting rails and a few extension tables from either Martin or Simantech.

Check. On Backorder.

I would also order a Euro-style jointer guard from Parts Pronto. Everyone loathes the orange pork chop.

Safer too. I really liked the folding guard on the AD941.

If you want a power feeder, I would suggest one of the Comatic DC units.

Check. I have a DC70 sitting in boxes with the smart stand.

Also, you need to buy at least one thing from me (), so I would get a FAT300 table.

Hah. Looks pretty cool. I wonder if anyone is storing it vertically? I'll have to see how much space I have once I finish re-organizing. Maybe one of those RL dust collectors though.

Derek

[Erik Loza]

Which machine is that Erik?

On my 2017ish Minimax CU300 the eccentric clamps go into the aluminum slider. I don't see any way they could even attach to the crosscut fence given the huge T-Slot plates on the clamps. You picture also appears to show the eccentric clamps fixed to the slider, not the fence.

Mark, that's a CU410E, probably circa 2004. If you look at the clamp in the foreground, you can see the "shoulder" on the black plastic bushing where the post meets the sliding table. There's a corresponding T-slot or possibly just channel on the rear face of the crosscut fence extrusion that the shoulder references into. Not visible in the photo. I guess the idea is that is somewhat indexes the clamp to the fence but if you "over-throw" the clamp on the workpiece, that clamp will actually lift the crosscut off the sliding table. Perhaps I'm not explaining it well but once you see it, it's obvious. Also, maybe only on Elite machines? Possibly not Smarts/Classics? I don't recall.

Erik

[Erik Loza]

...Safer too. I really liked the folding guard on the AD941.

What I might do is purchase (1) mounting arm and (2) bridge guards. Take one bridge guard, cut in half. Since most of us only face-joint full-width boards every so often, just keep the shorty one mounted to the machine. That way, you have a full-sized one as needed but aren't bumping into the full-width one during everyday use.

Hah. Looks pretty cool. I wonder if anyone is storing it vertically? I'll have to see how much space I have once I finish re-organizing. Maybe one of those RL dust collectors though.

Don't believe I've seen one stored vertically yet but that would not be at all difficult to build a rack for. Make (or buy) a grid top if you use Festool MFT gear. RL's are pretty nice. Definitely the quietest out there. If space is limited, I would also look at one of those Harvey units.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Eric, I found (and used) the post for the eccentric clamp to keep the end of the miter bar on the blade side from lifting when supporting something longer and heavier. That black composite "thick washer" you mention did indeed engage with a horizontal slot on the backside of the miter bar fence (and the outrigger fence) for that purpose. I actually thought that was a clever way to stabilize things without having to fasten the miter bar down to the wagon from above.

[Kevin Jenness]

Kevin, which flipstop are you using? Is it sturdy enough for this application?

Here's what I use- pretty simple to make. The clamp uses a Jorgenson press screw.

DSC_0743[1].jpgDSC_0744[1].jpg

[mark mcfarlane]

Here's what I use- pretty simple to make. The clamp uses a Jorgenson press screw.

DSC_0743[1].jpgDSC_0744[1].jpg

Awesome homemade flipstops, thanks Kevin for sharing.

[Chris Parks]

I made two F&F jigs and one has short Incra fences and stops on it and it has never been used. The other has no measuring built in but I made the ends replaceable because using different blades changes the zero point. Years ago I installed a very short fence on the rip fence head, it is only 300mm long and it gets used as a measured bump stop and I don't have to continually walk around a long fence hanging off the back of the saw. I do very little ripping using the long rip fence but it is only 30 seconds to install if it is needed. I also added a DRO to the rip fence and using the F&F jig with that measuring system makes me smile every time.

[derek labian]

Just curious, I've seen these mentioned a few times over the years, but little is ever said about them.

https://lambtoolworks.com/parallel-fences

Trying to boil this down, the parallel fence is more accurate than using the OEM fence (and the ability to do tapers). Thats my conclusion at least.