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Thread: Spin Shop Lathe stuck live center

  1. #1

    Spin Shop Lathe stuck live center

    I acquired an old Karle Spin Shop Lathe. The live center in the tail stock is horribly stuck. Yes I am sure from seeing pictures of other such lathes on line, that the live center is on an MT2 taper. Because of the age and rarity of the lathe I do not want to damage it. I tried penetrating oil and also tried kerosene. I have even thought about latching on to the live center with a pipe wrench and twisting it loose I am told the live centers are usually stuck from dried grease and once washed out with solvent, can be re-lubed and working again. They are a little different from Wood and metal turning live centers because they often have large flat surfaces against the work. (It is a metal spinning lathe.)

  2. #2
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    Turn the handwheel to retract the quill and see if that will eject it. If not put some pressure extra pressure on the handwheel and give a good rap with a soft blow mallet. Also check to see if the tailstock has a hollow quill, if so a knock-out rod through it should unseat it. That's all I have. Good luck. I would avoid the pipe wrench if possible not sure a twisting motion will help.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr View Post
    I acquired an old Karle Spin Shop Lathe. The live center in the tail stock is horribly stuck. Yes I am sure from seeing pictures of other such lathes on line, that the live center is on an MT2 taper. Because of the age and rarity of the lathe I do not want to damage it. I tried penetrating oil and also tried kerosene. I have even thought about latching on to the live center with a pipe wrench and twisting it loose I am told the live centers are usually stuck from dried grease and once washed out with solvent, can be re-lubed and working again. They are a little different from Wood and metal turning live centers because they often have large flat surfaces against the work. (It is a metal spinning lathe.)
    Is the 2MT of the live center stuck in the tailstock or is the live center stuck so it won't spin (bad bearing)? At first I thought you meant the taper couldn't be removed from the tailstock but your comments about washing old grease out with solvent and re-lubing made me wonder.

    If the bearings are bad they can usually be replaced. I don't know anything about that one but I've changed bearings in other live centers.

    JKJ

  4. #4
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    I've never seen nor heard of anyone greasing a morse taper. You need metal to metal to make it work. Any lubrication will cause it to spin more easily. If you put a pipe wrench on it, all you will do is spin the housing that hold the bearings. Few live centers have the shaft and bearing housing as one piece. If the tailstock has a through hole, use a knock out bar to shock the joint.

  5. #5
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    You are doing right by asking questions and not forcing anything.

    Before you "rachet" up your efforts, consider doing differential heating/cooling. Consider using a propane torch to heat the quill and use something to cool the MT2 shank of the live center. To cool, consider making a bag wrapped around the live center that is filled with dry ice. Or perhaps take some computer compressed air and tip it upside down and spray it. You'll be spraying the propellant and may see a temp of under 0 F.

    So you heat the quill and make it bigger in diameter and cool the live center to make it smaller. If it doesn't let go, shoot it with some liquid wrench or equivalent as it may seep in a bit better than at room temp.

  6. #6
    Sorry I mixed thoughts in my original post. The MT is stuck in the tail stock, but the tail stock is just pushed against the work and turned a partial turn to lock it in place, a bit like a barrel bolt gate lock or a rifle bolt. There is no hand wheel. A wood turning center often has a socket to put different shaped tips. This has a post on which to put various forms that are to match the bottom of the work, a little like a jam chuck, but normally flat. Because it is such an odd shape, I had hoped to resurrect it with a good cleaning and regreasing.

    Here is a picture of the tail stock from another of the same model:

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Wedge forks are used to remove car's tie rod ends. Look for one that may be the right size to fit between the live center and the shaft. I have used cold chisels as wedges for this job too.


  8. #8
    If you can find it you might try Iodine. It is amazing at soaking into rusted parts and releasing them.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  9. #9
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    The wedge forks is a good idea but may not fit. Make up 2 tapered pieces to go between the live center and the casting of the tailstocks face where the live center slips into. If you have a heat gun try heating the tailstock spindle if it does not come out with the wedges.

  10. #10
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    You can try an appropriately sized open end wrench. Try to lever it off.
    Dumb question #1. Are you sure it is a MT? And second dumb question, looks like that has no rust. Is it designed to come off, and what would you replace it with? Looks like a functioning part, and if you have the tips what's there to not like?

  11. #11
    Pickle forks are crude but sometimes effective option as a last resort but not my recommendation, at times they can damage what they're removing and what's holding it. If you're positive and you've tried all the other options, I would remove the quill and have it pressed out. it this isn't an option, sometimes a little heat can help in loosening this up when applying pressure.

    How are you so positive this is a removable 2MT live center?

  12. #12
    I have corresponded with three individuals that own the exact same lathe. It is a MT2 taper on the live center. The tail stock is not hollow through the length or I could try to put a knock out bar in to pop it out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr View Post
    I have corresponded with three individuals that own the exact same lathe. It is a MT2 taper on the live center. The tail stock is not hollow through the length or I could try to put a knock out bar in to pop it out.

    Then if you need to get it apart I might try heat and cold. Sometimes cooling the inner part (ice, freeze spray, or better, dry ice) then applying heat to the outer part will let you break it loose. I use a propane torch. You can try the cooling first then apply the heat or the opposite. I would disassemble the entire thing first so heat would not go where it is not needed or wanted.

    Another thing that can work is to make a custom jack, perhaps cut a hole (or slot if necessary) in a pair of plates that will fit against some shoulder on both the inner and outer parts. Drill and tap holes in one and fit with machine screws (I like to use hex cap head screws). Successively tighten the screws to push the parts apart. Sort of like a puller but a pusher instead. I've separated things this way after soaking in penetrant and/or while applying a temperature differential.

    I can't tell from your photo what comes apart and what doesn't. There may be a different way to apply pressure, for example with a hammer, wedges, or my favorite, a hydraulic press with a custom jig if necessary. I've done this several times with stubborn things. If that groove in your picture shows the mandrel with the MT on the end I might even work two pry bars at the same time on opposite sides. A bit of thin metal stock could protect from marring a surface.

    Another easier way is to take the thing off and take it to a local machine shop. If like most, they will experience in getting things apart. Perhaps they could even drill a hole through the center to allow using a knockouit bar in the future if needed. A properly equipped gunsmith might also be able to drill such a hole.

    Once apart, clean the MT surfaces. I bought a 2MT reamer for cleaning the inside taper of any galling. The inside can often be put in a lathe and cleaned up with a file and/or fine sandpaper, perhaps glued to a flat surface. The cleaning and repair needed depends, of course, on what you find when you get it apart.

    All this assumes the quill doesn't have a machined shot for a tapered tool made to remove tapered mandrels. (I forget the name of these) I don't see such a slot unless it is hidden inside the tailstock.


    JKJ

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Then if you need to get it apart I might try heat and cold. Sometimes cooling the inner part (ice, freeze spray, or better, dry ice) then applying heat to the outer part will let you break it loose. I use a propane torch. You can try the cooling first then apply the heat or the opposite. I would disassemble the entire thing first so heat would not go where it is not needed or wanted.

    Another thing that can work is to make a custom jack, perhaps cut a hole (or slot if necessary) in a pair of plates that will fit against some shoulder on both the inner and outer parts. Drill and tap holes in one and fit with machine screws (I like to use hex cap head screws). Successively tighten the screws to push the parts apart. Sort of like a puller but a pusher instead. I've separated things this way after soaking in penetrant and/or while applying a temperature differential.

    I can't tell from your photo what comes apart and what doesn't. There may be a different way to apply pressure, for example with a hammer, wedges, or my favorite, a hydraulic press with a custom jig if necessary. I've done this several times with stubborn things. If that groove in your picture shows the mandrel with the MT on the end I might even work two pry bars at the same time on opposite sides. A bit of thin metal stock could protect from marring a surface.

    Another easier way is to take the thing off and take it to a local machine shop. If like most, they will experience in getting things apart. Perhaps they could even drill a hole through the center to allow using a knockouit bar in the future if needed. A properly equipped gunsmith might also be able to drill such a hole.

    Once apart, clean the MT surfaces. I bought a 2MT reamer for cleaning the inside taper of any galling. The inside can often be put in a lathe and cleaned up with a file and/or fine sandpaper, perhaps glued to a flat surface. The cleaning and repair needed depends, of course, on what you find when you get it apart.

    All this assumes the quill doesn't have a machined shot for a tapered tool made to remove tapered mandrels. (I forget the name of these) I don't see such a slot unless it is hidden inside the tailstock.


    JKJ
    good advise, I'll just add this,

    Keep in mind, when taking these two parts apart, it's important to keep the pressure applied in a straight line. Prying and other such methods do not always have the desired effect. The MT2 is a machined press fit connection. Pressing or pulling in line with the connection is best.
    Apply pressure and heat, lightly tapping can shock the connection loose. It's difficult to give any specific advise without actually being there. If you think you might damage something take it to someone with the right tools/knowledge on how to disassemble it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post
    good advise, I'll just add this,

    Keep in mind, when taking these two parts apart, it's important to keep the pressure applied in a straight line. Prying and other such methods do not always have the desired effect. The MT2 is a machined press fit connection. Pressing or pulling in line with the connection is best. ...
    Good point to reinforce. When I use two pry bars on opposite sides I try to apply the same force with each one. Sometimes difficult when working alone. I've removed seized bearings this way.

    I had to remove a large tapered "pin" from my skid steer, probably 1.5" dia on the small side. After much effort with a variety of tools I finally rigged it to apply pulling force with a hydraulic portapower cylinder while smacking on the free end with a sledge hammer against a 1" round "pin". Fortunately it worked. This was the pivot bushing for the bucket cylinder and if I didn't get the cylinder off I'd have to put the whole machine on a trailer and take it to the John Deere shop like I did for the other side a few years before.

    JKJ

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