Ive done that, and I agree (I brought it up to my 12000 grit shaptons)
didn't try rotating it though ... 🤔
[OP]
Contributor
Ive done that, and I agree (I brought it up to my 12000 grit shaptons)
didn't try rotating it though ... 🤔
Contributor
Derek, please tell us more.and the knives can be reversed (lots of uses for this).
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...
When you mark a mortice or a tenon, the bevels face inward, permitting the flat back to score against the walls. This is the same as marking a baseline for dovetails - the bevel faces the waste and the back remains flat.
When marking anything, we do so from a reference side. If you turned the board around and marked the second mortice or tenon line from the other side (since the back would now again face the outside), you would be risking an out-of-parallel boundary line (since the non-reference side is not necessarily parallel). So, we always work from a reference side, and the reversed knife is needed to score the parallel line.
You will find many occasions when you need to work with a a reversed knife: mortices, grooves, dados, cleaning up beads, inlay, and so on.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Contributor
I also quite like my Japanese mortice gauge, though the Kinshiro was out of reach. I bought the Matsui version from Stu right as he was closing up. However, looks like still available from Suzuki. I agree with others above that marking gauges are like clamps...can't have too many.
https://suzukitool.com/tools/japanes...ma-kebiki.html
"You can observe a lot just by watching."
--Yogi Berra
Contributor
Thanks for the clarity Derek.Originally Posted by Derek Cohen
Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...
[edited]
Derek
jtk
-my doctor wanted me to stop drinking coffee for awhile, on my fourth day.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Yes. First, they are easier to see. They are also easy to set a pencil in to darken the line if you need that. I find that to be very beneficial when planing a board to width and I want to be able to see from a distance how close I'm getting to the line with a heavy planing cut. Then when I get really close, I'll switch planes and the darkened line is less necessary as I aim to split the gauge line. Also, they tend to not follow the grain in open grain wood.
You will notice that most of us with pin style gauges file them so they are not round pins. They are more knife-ish. They should not tear the wood at all.... unless going cross grain in softer wood, then they will tear.
Contributor
Some times a very sharp pencil is used to highlight a scribed line.
When a pencil line is wanted of will be planed of an Odd Jobs is prefered:
Two Sticks and Odd Jobs.jpg
It can also work well with a story stick or as a stop on a story stick.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
One thing is always puzzled me about bevel edge mortise gauges; yes when marking mortises the bevels face in toward the waste side. However when the same gauge/setup is used to mark the tenon, now the reverse is true – the bevels are not facing the waste side. How do you guys accommodate for that, or does it even matter?Jim, the Japanese mortice gauges, such as the Kinshiro, has two blades where the bevels face each other ...
When you mark a mortice or a tenon, the bevels face inward, permitting the flat back to score against the walls. This is the same as marking a baseline for dovetails - the bevel faces the waste and the back remains flat.
When marking anything, we do so from a reference side. If you turned the board around and marked the second mortice or tenon line from the other side (since the back would now again face the outside), you would be risking an out-of-parallel boundary line (since the non-reference side is not necessarily parallel). So, we always work from a reference side, and the reversed knife is needed to score the parallel line.
You will find many occasions when you need to work with a a reversed knife: mortices, grooves, dados, cleaning up beads, inlay, and so on.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks for the info – this is an interesting thread. Mortice & tenons are one of those fundamental joinery skills that really benefit from precision layout and execution. I'm eager to learn how I could do this better.
Cheers, like
Member
One option is to use the Veritas dual mortise gauge. You can put the bevels on whatever side you need.
I only use that gauge to mark the tenons. There is no need to have two gauge lines to mark the mortise as the width of the mortise will be decided by the chisel. Mark one line and set the chisel to that.
Contributor
The scribe lines only go down an eighth of an inch or so. Saw to the line and your tenon will be fine. The part compressed by the blade will likely swell a touch and make the tenon tighter as the glue dries.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I also experience that dilemma Mike. I recall an article by Ian Kirby. He prefers mortising first. Then, after marking out the tenon with the same mortising gauge setting, present it to the mortise. At that point you can see if you can saw on the line, just on the outside border of the line, or leave the line. My first few tenons are usually a bit fat & the the router plane comes in handy. When I get my groove, I get more daring and go for fit right off the saw.
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