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Thread: Sorting out a super surfacer

  1. #1
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    Sorting out a super surfacer

    I recently purchased a Marunaka ‘New’ Royal 10 super surfacer. The machine was modified to run on single phase with a static converter, I decided to remove the static converter setup and replace the controls with modern stuff.

    A static converter kills HP which will be much needed as I will use this setup with much wider boards than the previous owner did.

    The motor is an 8 lead Fuji motor and the wiring diagram for the machine had not been particularly helpful. The original wiring is something I took photos of, but wasn’t sure how to go removing the static converter. I took the motor to a shop and had it rewound, but they did not wind it to be a 9 lead motor, instead they duplicated the original arrangement and have some far not provided any info on how to hook it up. One of the guys are going to stop by my shop and have a look but they aren’t able to provide a wiring setup. Beyond frustrated by that but still trying to have this function without pressing them to rewind it again.

    I replaced the motor controls (thanks, Malcolm!) with a modern setup.

    Attachment 466835


    This was what was originally in the peckerhead.

    9AD90277-BC7F-4104-884B-8F8DCEF01F23.jpg
    994003D5-B7DD-4AC9-9EB8-7A6D4EC8E4CE.jpg

    Here is the original wiring diagram, Mark Hennebury was able to source another and it looks pretty much the same, none of the wire labels correspond.

    D50ECA2A-7621-4D2A-8620-6E63A0688189.jpg

    Any guidance would be appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  2. #2
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    I wish I could help Brian but Iíll sure be along to see what you do with this machine!

    But if the motor shop knew how to wind it they should be able to tell you how to hook it up I would think.

    Failing that you could try reaching out to someone in Japan with a similar machine.

    More pictures please!

  3. #3
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    Thanks, Jeff! I spoke to them yesterday and apparently winding a motor does not provide one with any insight on how to wire it up. I found that info amazing, especially given that the goal of rewinding it was just that.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #4
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    That sure is amazing, kind of defies all logic that they wouldnít understand how to hook it up. Did they just copy the original winding without any thought whatsoever?
    I can ask a friend down here, heís the best machine guy I know. Heíd love to see the modifications youíve made to your mortisers!

  5. #5
    If you have a multi-meter, it should be relatively straightforward to ID the wires for each winding pair:
    • put the meter in 'resistance mode';
    • pick 1 wire and clip a meter lead to it;
    • test each of the other wires -
      • 1 should show resistance (so that is your 'pair')
      • all others should read 'open'

    • tape this pair together and push them aside
    • repeat the process until you have the 4 pairs (for 8-lead motor).


    From here I'm not sure what to tell you. I've picked up a lot over the years, but generally relied on electricians to handle work inside the peckerhead - - and they on the wiring diagrams and OEM numbers on the leads. I have done trouble-shooting on motors that had very, very small lead numbers (2-3pt font) - - I swore they were not labeled until I got a good light and magnifier. Are you sure yours are not labeled?

    If they are in fact not labeled, I'd be a bit put out with the motor shop! For me at least it would be a crap shoot trying to get the phasing right w/o them.

    (Feel free to email the pics, if I can help.)

    ETA - I had to go confirm, but all 3-phase motors I've worked with had 9 leads. ...Not sure what to make of your motor in light of this??
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 10-23-2021 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #6
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    Thank you, Malcolm, much appreciated!

    Sounds good, I’ll set aside the pairs as you described. The wires are labeled as the were originally but no insights provided beyond that. The original wiring diagram isn’t helpful either.

    I made the motor shop aware of my concerns, so they are arriving Monday afternoon to help sort it out. I won’t apply power to it until they give the OK.

    I’ve made the occasional bone-head decision myself, so I’m willing to let them resolve theirs but don’t want to spend a huge amount of time doing so.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #7
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    Cool machine. I had to watch a youtube to see what it does... very cool!

    There should have been 3 leads between the static phase converter and the motor (this does appear to be the case in the photo of the motor wiring you are showing). You should be able to replace those 3 leads with 3 power leads from a 3 phase supply, or the 3 power leads from a VFD. I would recommend just hooking the motor up and getting it spinning on what ever you are using for a 3 phase supply without worrying about the controls on the rest of the machine. Once you have the motor turning properly I would only then worry about incorporating the controls from the rest of the machine. Since a static phase convertor was used it most certainly would have been wired in the 220v configuration.

    What are you using to supply the machine with 3 phase power?

    Is the motor a standard frame size motor?
    Last edited by Michael Schuch; 10-24-2021 at 4:03 AM.

  8. #8
    Do you have 3 phase power or an RPC? Either way, you donít necessarily need all of the electronics if you donít want them. I would take the motor back to the electric motor shop and have them rewire it for 3 leads. They can and should be able to do this. Then just buy a 220v 50amp (or what ever amperage is necessary) on/off switch. The three leads coming out of the motor will go to the 3 load ports on the switch and the 3 incoming 3ph wires will go to the line side of the switch. Then connect your grounds and you are in business.

    Yes, a magnetic starter with all the trimmings would be better. But this will get you up and running. You might have to fork over some extra cash to the electric motor shop but it would be worth it to have them rewire it with 3 leads instead of 8.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Schuch View Post
    Cool machine. I had to watch a youtube to see what it does... very cool!

    There should have been 3 leads between the static phase converter and the motor (this does appear to be the case in the photo of the motor wiring you are showing). You should be able to replace those 3 leads with 3 power leads from a 3 phase supply, or the 3 power leads from a VFD. I would recommend just hooking the motor up and getting it spinning on what ever you are using for a 3 phase supply without worrying about the controls on the rest of the machine. Once you have the motor turning properly I would only then worry about incorporating the controls from the rest of the machine. Since a static phase convertor was used it most certainly would have been wired in the 220v configuration.

    What are you using to supply the machine with 3 phase power?

    Is the motor a standard frame size motor?
    Hi Michael,

    Thanks for your ideas, much appreciated. Trouble with the original wiring is that there was not three obvious connections. Instead, two pairs of leads are connected to one another and nothing else and two more are connected to the line wires and also this starter/capacitor arrangement.

    Im using a rotary, and the motor is standard frame. I’m looking into replacements, if I can’t figure the wiring in another day or so I’ll simply replace it.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Hi Michael,

    Thanks for your ideas, much appreciated. Trouble with the original wiring is that there was not three obvious connections. Instead, two pairs of leads are connected to one another and nothing else and two more are connected to the line wires and also this starter/capacitor arrangement.

    Im using a rotary, and the motor is standard frame. I’m looking into replacements, if I can’t figure the wiring in another day or so I’ll simply replace it.

    Hello Brian,

    To me it appears the the static phase convertor is built into the lid of the wiring cage on the motor (The wiring diagram does not show any capacitors or relays which gives me the very strong belief that they were added to run the machine on single phase). I believe you will want to get rid of the capacitor and what looks like a potential relay. What you are referring to as a "starter/capacitor" IS the static phase convertor. With those removed I would wire the 3 legs from your RPC like this:

    994003D5-B7DD-4AC9-9EB8-7A6D4EC8E4CE.jpg

    X The heavy wires coming in from the top of the wiring cage will be removed and replaced by leads coming from the RPC. "I" would start by putting a plug and receptacle between the RPC and Motor. Crank up your RPC. Then plug the motor into the RPC. The motor should take off spinning.

    If you have ever looked inside a commercial static phase convertor (ie. Phase-O-Matic) it is literally a capacitor and a potential relay with the identifying part number scratched off of the potential relay. That is it.
    Last edited by Michael Schuch; 10-25-2021 at 2:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    I’ll test those wire groups for resistance and see if it makes sense.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #12
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    That diagram looks a lot like a 9 lead motor. U1,V1,W1, U2,V2,W2,X,Y,Z


    Screenshot_20211025-084248_Chrome.jpg

  13. #13
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    It sure does, but the motor had 8 leads.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    It sure does, but the motor had 8 leads.
    I make no claims to have seen everything, but... I searched again, thinking I am just stoopit. The wiring diagrams I can find for 3 phase motors all have 3, 6, 9, or 12 leads (99% of my commissioning efforts are 9-lead). The only diagrams I see online for 8 leads are for steppers or single phase motors. ...Not sure what to make of this.

  15. #15
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    Me either, and the motor shop that rewound it now thinks it’s a single phase motor. I spoke to the previous owner again, he says it was modified to run on single phase by someone who he hired for that purpose.

    It’s at the point now I’m just going to source a different 100L frame motor and call it a day.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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