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Thread: can I used the planner

  1. #1

    can I used the planner

    Can I just use the planner to flatten this board? If I can great if not why not?

    DSC03880.JPG
    Tom

  2. #2
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    Really needs to be face jointed first. If you want to do it in a thicknesser, you'll want to use a sled that you can shim the board so that the rollers do not temporarily take out part of the cup. You need it to shave the high spots without that happening.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    I can't see the thickness, but if it is 8/4 you probably could, but closer to 4/4, you risk the rollers flattening the board out on the way through and then springing back to cupped afterwards, as Jim notes above. Note that the planer will still leave any twist over the length. A long bed jointer will make it planer-ready fast and easy.

    If you don't have a jointer or have a crummy one like I used to have and don't want to use a planer sled, you can take a jack plane and take out some of the cup (and twist if present) and then run it through the planer. You don't need to do a finish-ready face jointing, just enough so the board doesn't flex under the infeed roller and doesn't twist or rock on the way through the planer.

  4. #4
    My opinion: Art project or firewood. By the time you joint it enough to get a flat face so that you can run it through the planer, there probably won't be much left. Not sure what your goal is, though.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  5. #5
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    The planer (one n, unless you’re planning to do something) doesn’t flatten anything, it makes one side parallel to another. You need to face joint it, on a jointer, first then plane. You’ll be taking off quite a bit of material it appears to get a flat and straight board out of that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    My opinion: Art project or firewood. By the time you joint it enough to get a flat face so that you can run it through the planer, there probably won't be much left. Not sure what your goal is, though.

    Erik
    Hanging on to this good point...if you can utilize narrower sticks, rip it down the middle first and then flatten/thickness. It will preserve more material thickness. Shorter lengths will also help.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    Cut into a few thin strips (depending on the width of the board) and then alternate grain direction.s and glue back together. You should end up with more useable board if done carefully and correctly.
    Funny, I don't remember being absent minded...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bussey View Post
    Can I just use the planner to flatten this board? If I can great if not why not?

    DSC03880.JPG
    Yes. I've done it before. Start with the cupped side down and take light passes. A hybrid approach would be to take the "hump" off the convex side with a scrub or jack plane and cleaning it up with the planer. Ripping the board in half and regluing after planing will make the process easier. Some have mentioned a sled, which works great. That said, the sled needs to be the length of your board, and that one looks pretty long.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Hanging on to this good point...if you can utilize narrower sticks, rip it down the middle first and then flatten/thickness. It will preserve more material thickness. Shorter lengths will also help.
    Wouldn't you want to cross cut it down to smaller pieces, not rip it?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Wouldn't you want to cross cut it down to smaller pieces, not rip it?
    No. You want to minimize the space between the highest point of the board and the table or surface it's sitting on. Making it shorter will not accomplish that. Ripping it then planing both halves will. Of course once both halves are flat, the ripped edges won't be square. You'd have to rip or joint the edges again to get them square. I bought a 12" Jointer/Planer to help with getting rough sawn stock flat and square. After making a few poplar boards 3/4" thick in the center and 3/8" thick on the ends or edges I began to understand the limitations and techniques for flattening boards. Ripping, planing then regluing can save a fair amount of material if a board has a lot of cup.

  11. #11
    I think this board is good. It's rift sawn and appears not to have any major defects.

    I have "jointed" with the planer many times. It works just fine depending on how critical you need to be.

    Then take very, very light passes off the concave side. As soon as there is a reasonable flat surface on that side, flip between passes.

    Before you do this, I would cross cut it to 9-12" longer than your final length. Contrary to some of the advice here, I think this is important. The planer won't correct for longitudinal warp. Cross cutting it will allow you to see if it's flat enough along it's length to skip the jointer. If there is a bow along the length that you can't live with, you will have to use the jointer.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 10-21-2021 at 9:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Thank you for your responses. I knew the answer before I posted the picture. I had to look hard to find a board so that it would show a cup in a photo. The real answer I was looking for came from Jim (you'll want to use a sled that you can shim the board so that the rollers do not temporarily take out part of the cup.)

    It is kind of a proven fact that the feed rollers on a planner will temporarily take the cup out but it will spring back when it leaves the planner. And I agree with this statement but I wanted a lot of you to chime in so that I am not alone.

    I watch a lot of you tube woodworking videos and the major thing I see is people pushing down on the wood and their elbows are locked. It is implied that you run the board accosted the jointer once and then to the planner. To accomplish that, the depth of the cut needs to be fairly healthy. Which means more downward pressure. If there is downward pressure in the cut then and if there is a bow in the board when it starts then there will be a bow in the board when the cut is completed. If there is down ward pressure and a twist in the board when the cut starts then there will be a twist in the board when the cut is completed. So whether it is the pressure roller on a planner or downward pressure from the arms the cause and effect are the same. And the deeper the cut the more pressure both the arms or feed rollers have to exert. Maybe the cut is removed but the cup and twist remain. Hence the board is not flat. If it is not flat going into the planner it will not be flat coming out of the planner.

    The next thing I see is the purchased little push blocks with rubber feet being used and the gripping power to make the board move on the jointer table has to be quite a lot to get the board to move which also helps the cup and twist to remain.

    And the last thing I hear is I have to take a really deep cut to get rid of the taper. I guy asked me the other day what he was doing wrong. He said he checked his jointer and every thing was correct according to what he had read on setting his jointer up. But that he had to take1/8 of an inch off to keep from getting a taper. I am sorry but the only way I know of to cut a taper on jointer is to have the outfeed table lower that the cutter.


    Tom

  13. #13
    I watch a lot of you tube woodworking videos and the major thing I see is people pushing down on the wood and their elbows are locked. It is implied that you run the board accosted the jointer once and then to the planner. To accomplish that, the depth of the cut needs to be fairly healthy. Which means more downward pressure. If there is downward pressure in the cut then and if there is a bow in the board when it starts then there will be a bow in the board when the cut is completed. If there is down ward pressure and a twist in the board when the cut starts then there will be a twist in the board when the cut is completed. So whether it is the pressure roller on a planner or downward pressure from the arms the cause and effect are the same. And the deeper the cut the more pressure both the arms or feed rollers have to exert. Maybe the cut is removed but the cup and twist remain. Hence the board is not flat. If it is not flat going into the planner it will not be flat coming out of the planner.

    The next thing I see is the purchased little push blocks with rubber feet being used and the gripping power to make the board move on the jointer table has to be quite a lot to get the board to move which also helps the cup and twist to remain.


    A very thin piece of stock can be twisted by hand pressure but you really have to work at it otherwise. There is no reason to assume that one pass is all that is needed to flatten a board, in fact that is rarely the case. I don't find that a great deal of down pressure is required to move a workpiece across a waxed jointer table, and I usually am taking about a 1/16" cut when facing. Some judgment is needed to get a flat surface on a cupped, bowed or twisted piece, it isn't automatic. Sure, you can use a sled and shims to flatten a board in a planer, but why would you if you have a machine at hand which is designed for just that purpose?

    I am sorry but the only way I know of to cut a taper on jointer is to have the outfeed table lower that the cutter.

    I sometimes cut tapers intentionally on the jointer by dropping on with the uncut toe of the workpiece starting on the outfeed table.

  14. #14
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    I have my jointer set to about 1/32"...I'd rather have to take more passes in some cases to avoid taking off more than I need to in others.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #15
    Jim thanks for chiming in again. I agree with lighter cuts. I have my jointer set for .0156 which is 1/64th. That way I can keep track of how much I take off if I do 4 passes I take off 1/16th and my wood slides on the jointer with no pressure. I will post pictures latter.

    I know Prashun is talking about working around the jointer by using the planner. And if you do not have a jointer this is what you will have to do. But his statement (If there is a bow along the length that you can't live with, you will have to use the jointer.) concerns me. Why skip the jointer if you have one?

    Earlier I said take one should always work as accurately as possible. And being trained to work that way from a lot of journeyman tool and die makers todo just that. I got hammer by one that said we are working with wood and don't need to work within .0005 for tolerances. I didn't say anything about tolerance's, at least not yet.

    But did I say take one should always work as accurately as possible.

    Here are 4 pictures of the same 4 boards along the 8 foot length of accuracy, I am sorry but anyone can show running a board accosted a jointer , through a planner and then smear glue on it and leave it in clamps for 24 hours.

    DSC03887.JPG DSC03888.JPG DSC03890.JPG DSC03890.JPG DSC03890.JPG DSC03889.JPG

    Sorry I got the same picture 3 times.


    Stay with me more about how to get good and expected results from a jointer. But here is what I am talking about
    But did I say take one should always work as accurately as possible.







    Tom

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