Questions about Scandinavian Benches, etc.

[Luke Dupont]

Hi guys,

I've been contemplating starting back up my apartment woodworking endeavors, which were so costly and difficult before. But, I like making things...
So, I'm ordering some chisels, a bit and brace, and an antique dovetail saw and No. 2 Stanley Bailey (Expensive, but I'm not going to be making large things often enough to justify even a tenon saw or No. 3, I think, and want to specialize in smaller work, and I dislike block planes.)

My main constraints, and these are huge ones, are:

1) Sound
2) Space
3) Able to be knocked down and moved, not too terribly heavy. I move a LOT. That means minimal tools, and staying as light weight as possible.

I'd also like it to look somewhat nice (a change from my previous benches) just in case it finds a home one day in the living room or something. If it looks good enough to serve as a regular table or desk one day, all the better.

I'm looking to make very small projects. Possibly very small pieces of furniture, but mostly just toys and small boxes -- that sort of thing.
As far as space, I'm thinking the largest I should go with is around 18" x 36".

My first question is a general one:

1. If you were concerned about space and noise, what sort of bench would you build? Keeping in mind the small size (1.5 x 3 feet) and mobility as a necessity.
In particular, how would you limit the vibrations that the bench imparts to the floor? Last time I did this, I found a couple of problems:
- Thin benchtops tend to act as soundboards and amplify chopping noises
- I also would imagine that a very heavy bench, due to its mass, can be more easily decoupled from the floor whilst still relying on its mass to provide resistance against chopping and the like.
On this point, something like a Roubo with a super thick top would be ideal, except for two problems; namely that it can't be moved easily, and that it's so small that there's not enough material to support the leg joinery unless the legs are far too close together.

Questions about Scandinavian / Sloyd designs:

I saw a little Sjoberg's bench almost exactly this size (I think 14" x 36") called the "Junior / Senior" which inspired me, and also got me considering a Scandinavian / Sloyd design.
I also love the look of the simple, older style vintage Sloyd workbenches, if you do a search on google: https://www.google.com/search?q=sloy...4cYRfkbb_EtLKM

I do not want to use a fancy press vise or tail vise like on large scandinavian workbenches. I'm thinking something more similar to the Sjoberg. I want to keep the entire bench simple and quickish to build -- not too much joinery or anything, though I do think I will mortise the leg assemply together. Preferably no unnecessary joinery on the top.

However, I don't really know how these benches are constructed traditionally, in their simplest form. I've scoured the internet, and can't seem to answer the following questions:

2. How are the legs attached? They seem to not be attached by all that much. These things don't rack? I can't find references freely available on the internet, and I can't find much on simpler constructions. I want to know the "bare minimum" or the "most basic" design, not the insanely elaborate and ornate ones.
3. How is the top made? How thick is the top typically? They seem really thin, and sometimes (usually?) with skirts that are also narrow, but a little thicker than the top.
4. Is this bench style just totally not suited to my situation?

I was thinking of attempting to build a very simple version of this, with just a flat, 2" or so thick top and no skirt / rim, or only a very short skirt in the front perhaps (*this brings up another point: it'd be nice to use with a chair that can scoot up underneath, since it necessarily needs to be somewhat on the short side). The legs I don't really know how to attach just yet. I'm not opposed to simple hardware methods, but I don't want something too flimsy, and whatever the method, it must be easy to disassemble.

This all depends on what materials I find available to me, though. My budget is not terribly high, so pine is likely going to be my go-to.

[Axel de Pugey]

Dear Luke,

While I am not qualified to answer all your questions, I can hopefully help on a portion of them.

I own two small Scandinavian benches, an old Danish school one found on a flea market in Denmark and the Swedish one you mention, found on another flea market in Denmark.


Danish
The school bench I bought was sold without legs, it seems it was attached to the wall of the class. Obviously with your noise constraints, you will not want to attach it to the wall, but that is how mine was made apparently.





I stored it in my attic along with the four benchdogs waiting to build new legs, I was unsure what should be the design.

Then two years later on another flea market, I bumped into the exact same bench sold with some parts, I took a picture:




Swedish
Two months ago, I bumped into this modern bench still made. Mine was sold only with the short legs so I will do the 4 extensions.





So if you need any measurments and pictures to help designing your own, I can help right now on the Danish one that I brought back home. I will be in my cabin in DK in 2 weeks time where I can take more measurments of the Swedish one if need be (but you can find a PDF on Sjöbergs' website)

[Tom M King]

I have one of the little Lervad's, in use since bought new in 1977. Chris Swarz said that no one could use them, but I do. It does need some help, by being secured, or resting against something heavy, like a table saw, or 2x4 clamped to the strecthers, and abutting a wall, or fireplace, but I can tell you the number of square feet I've planed on it. In the last picture, it was clamped to a tablesaw.

It knocks down quickly, easily, and has been moved Many times.

[Joshua Lucas]

It sounds to me like you want a Moravian bench.

[chris carter]

wine.jpg
I have a small 48” x 15” roubo in my dining room. It is doing more important stuff than woodworking, but I did do some work on it and it does work quite well. At 36” long, I dunno, that’s pushing it. That said, if 36” x 18” is your goal, then everything at that size is portable without even having to be knocked down (I got that cherry/ash roubo out of my basement and up two half flights of stairs on my own WITH a busted elbow).

If you peruse youtube you’ll find all manner of ingenious super compact workbench ideas – provided you are not married to an historical looking bench. Jay Bates just released a video today of a workbench based upon in the idea of a super sawhorse that I think would be very functional, and doesn’t look too bad either: https://youtu.be/ZlGSANE_9Yk But if you search small workbench and things like that, you’ll find all manner of ideas as a jumping off point.

The tricky thing with any small bench of the size you want will be mass. You’ll need to throw a big sandbag or dumbells, etc. on the shelf to keep it from moving. Also, 18” wide can make things possibly a little tippy planing from front the back on the bench without splayed legs.

Another option would be a low workbench. You could go super traditional with a “Roman” staked style bench or there are plenty of more updated styles you can find on youtube if you search low work bench. Many of them incorporate regular vises and work similar to an upright bench, just low. A staked style one tends to use a very different method of workholding utilizing a system of pegs and wedges that is very functional, but can sometimes be a little tricky cutting complicated joinery (they do use holdfasts though). A low bench can double as a coffee table in front of the couch allowing your workbench to disappear. But the big advantage of a low bench is that you sit on it so you won’t have any issues with the bench moving from being light in weight. But it IS kind of a different way of working and if you have any kind of back issues (like I have) then long stints can start to get uncomfortable. That said, when I use my low staked bench it IS pretty fun.

As for sound……

If you have a neighbor below you then you will need to decouple the bench from the floor with what’s called a floating floor. I own a recording studio and spend my day job making records so suffice to say, I know a wee bit about this stuff. Probably the cheapest and easiest solution is to get a single sheet of rigid fiberglass, like Owens Corning 703 or an equivalent (Knauf makes the same stuff). Get a 2” thick piece. These come in sheets that are 48”x24” so you will only need one since that’s bigger than your bench (you can cut this stuff down with a butcher knife or any thin and sharp and long enough blade). You want to wrap it in something so you don’t get fiberglass on you anytime you touch it. You can wrap it in fabric and just tape the fabric on the underside, some companies make pre-made fabric sleeves for them. You could also just use a black garbage bag in a pinch. Anyway, then you’ll need a THICK piece of plywood or MDF 48x24. Thicker the better – ¾” would be acceptable. Put that on top of your rigid fiberglass. Then put the bench on top of the whole thing. This will provide a stable platform for the bench and will do a VERY good job of decoupling it from the floor without the bench bouncing up and down. So when you pound on the bench, or saw on the bench, those vibrations won’t make it to the floor (well, some still will, but it will be DRAMATICALLY reduced). You can put the fiberglass insulation and the plywood in a coat closet when not in use (rigid fiberglass is fairly dense stuff – don’t confuse it with the fluffy stuff you put in your attic). This also gives you the option to put some cleats on the plywood to keep your bench from sliding around and if the surface area doesn’t provide enough friction with the floor you can lay down some drawer liner. In the music world this is how we keep the drums or the bass amp from leaching into other studio rooms through the floor. Anyway, this is probably the biggest noise problem. Depending upon variables, it’s possible that the plywood could vibrate acting like an acoustic amplifier to your pounding on the bench. If this happens just drop a sandbag on it (needs to be sand because it has to be able to vibrate).

As for the sound going through the air, you will NOT be able to STOP it. Instead take advantage of the fact that sound bounces off walls and those reflections make up a considerable amount of the sound we hear. Part of the sound you hear is the direct sound, and the rest is the reflective sound. You can’t control the direct sound, but you can control the reflective sound. By way of example, if I pick up my trumpet and play it in my living room (carpet and a couch, but nothing else absorptive) I just can’t hand the volume without ear plugs. However, I can go into the control room of my studio and blast crazy loud and I’m fine because there’s a lot of absorption in there. Without getting all crazy, basically you just want as much soft absorptive stuff as possible covering hard walls, floors, ceiling, windows. The more you can do, the better, but you have to be reasonable with the fact that you will live in this room as well. Carpet is a huge plus if you have it because that’s usually a quarter of the reflective surfaces. If you can hang heavy curtains rather that blinds on the windows that will help. It’s hard to do much more than that without things looking ugly. But, you can put some hooks along the top of a wall and hang a duvet only when you are working and that will help. Ideally, you want as much thickness as possible to the absorptive surfaces, but that is kind of unrealistic for a room that doubles as a living space. The thicker the absorption (all other things being equal) the lower the frequencies it can absorb. Luckily, woodworking doesn’t have a ton of low frequency energy.

Now if this will be a room dedicated to woodworking, there’s LOTS you can do (depending upon how much you want to spend). And if you are willing to rip open some walls and stuff you can make it quieter than a mouse…..

[Luke Dupont]

wine.jpg
I have a small 48” x 15” roubo in my dining room. It is doing more important stuff than woodworking, but I did do some work on it and it does work quite well. At 36” long, I dunno, that’s pushing it. That said, if 36” x 18” is your goal, then everything at that size is portable without even having to be knocked down (I got that cherry/ash roubo out of my basement and up two half flights of stairs on my own WITH a busted elbow).

If you peruse youtube you’ll find all manner of ingenious super compact workbench ideas – provided you are not married to an historical looking bench. Jay Bates just released a video today of a workbench based upon in the idea of a super sawhorse that I think would be very functional, and doesn’t look too bad either: https://youtu.be/ZlGSANE_9Yk But if you search small workbench and things like that, you’ll find all manner of ideas as a jumping off point.

The tricky thing with any small bench of the size you want will be mass. You’ll need to throw a big sandbag or dumbells, etc. on the shelf to keep it from moving. Also, 18” wide can make things possibly a little tippy planing from front the back on the bench without splayed legs.

Another option would be a low workbench. You could go super traditional with a “Roman” staked style bench or there are plenty of more updated styles you can find on youtube if you search low work bench. Many of them incorporate regular vises and work similar to an upright bench, just low. A staked style one tends to use a very different method of workholding utilizing a system of pegs and wedges that is very functional, but can sometimes be a little tricky cutting complicated joinery (they do use holdfasts though). A low bench can double as a coffee table in front of the couch allowing your workbench to disappear. But the big advantage of a low bench is that you sit on it so you won’t have any issues with the bench moving from being light in weight. But it IS kind of a different way of working and if you have any kind of back issues (like I have) then long stints can start to get uncomfortable. That said, when I use my low staked bench it IS pretty fun.

As for sound……

If you have a neighbor below you then you will need to decouple the bench from the floor with what’s called a floating floor. I own a recording studio and spend my day job making records so suffice to say, I know a wee bit about this stuff. Probably the cheapest and easiest solution is to get a single sheet of rigid fiberglass, like Owens Corning 703 or an equivalent (Knauf makes the same stuff). Get a 2” thick piece. These come in sheets that are 48”x24” so you will only need one since that’s bigger than your bench (you can cut this stuff down with a butcher knife or any thin and sharp and long enough blade). You want to wrap it in something so you don’t get fiberglass on you anytime you touch it. You can wrap it in fabric and just tape the fabric on the underside, some companies make pre-made fabric sleeves for them. You could also just use a black garbage bag in a pinch. Anyway, then you’ll need a THICK piece of plywood or MDF 48x24. Thicker the better – ¾” would be acceptable. Put that on top of your rigid fiberglass. Then put the bench on top of the whole thing. This will provide a stable platform for the bench and will do a VERY good job of decoupling it from the floor without the bench bouncing up and down. So when you pound on the bench, or saw on the bench, those vibrations won’t make it to the floor (well, some still will, but it will be DRAMATICALLY reduced). You can put the fiberglass insulation and the plywood in a coat closet when not in use (rigid fiberglass is fairly dense stuff – don’t confuse it with the fluffy stuff you put in your attic). This also gives you the option to put some cleats on the plywood to keep your bench from sliding around and if the surface area doesn’t provide enough friction with the floor you can lay down some drawer liner. In the music world this is how we keep the drums or the bass amp from leaching into other studio rooms through the floor. Anyway, this is probably the biggest noise problem. Depending upon variables, it’s possible that the plywood could vibrate acting like an acoustic amplifier to your pounding on the bench. If this happens just drop a sandbag on it (needs to be sand because it has to be able to vibrate).

As for the sound going through the air, you will NOT be able to STOP it. Instead take advantage of the fact that sound bounces off walls and those reflections make up a considerable amount of the sound we hear. Part of the sound you hear is the direct sound, and the rest is the reflective sound. You can’t control the direct sound, but you can control the reflective sound. By way of example, if I pick up my trumpet and play it in my living room (carpet and a couch, but nothing else absorptive) I just can’t hand the volume without ear plugs. However, I can go into the control room of my studio and blast crazy loud and I’m fine because there’s a lot of absorption in there. Without getting all crazy, basically you just want as much soft absorptive stuff as possible covering hard walls, floors, ceiling, windows. The more you can do, the better, but you have to be reasonable with the fact that you will live in this room as well. Carpet is a huge plus if you have it because that’s usually a quarter of the reflective surfaces. If you can hang heavy curtains rather that blinds on the windows that will help. It’s hard to do much more than that without things looking ugly. But, you can put some hooks along the top of a wall and hang a duvet only when you are working and that will help. Ideally, you want as much thickness as possible to the absorptive surfaces, but that is kind of unrealistic for a room that doubles as a living space. The thicker the absorption (all other things being equal) the lower the frequencies it can absorb. Luckily, woodworking doesn’t have a ton of low frequency energy.

Now if this will be a room dedicated to woodworking, there’s LOTS you can do (depending upon how much you want to spend). And if you are willing to rip open some walls and stuff you can make it quieter than a mouse…..

Great information here! The room doubles as my office and personal room / space.

As for the fiberglass + MDF or Plywood base, does that need to be large (ie the same footprint as my bench) or does it only need to be as big as the feet of my bench themselves?

An additional thing that I found are half sphere rubber pieces that can be glued onto the feet for added isolation, and they also just so happen to be very grippy and keep the bench from moving (I just got some of these and tried on my little Japanese planing board). I think these are great for stopping vibrations from sawing and the like, but maybe not quite enough for chisel work -- at least not chopping straight down. They do seem to make a noticeable difference however! I think this combined with your fiberglass/mdf floor should make for pretty solid sound isolation.

I have 3 windows in a fairly small room, and one of them is very large, but I don't use it and keep the shutters closed. I think I'll buy some thick curtains, maybe with sound proof liners as well, and also plug up the large unused / shuttered window with cardboard. I've been wanting to do this anyway as my room right on top of the corner of two rather noisy roads.

I should also soundproof my door a little. There are huge gaps all around it and I'm sure it's hollow -- I can easily hear people in the living room and vise versa. I'll start with just putting some... I don't know what it's called, but foam gap filling tape around the door. It doesn't need to be perfectly quiet, but I do want to reduce the sound so my wife doesn't get annoyed. She's fairly tolerant, but still.

I have the freedom to decorate my room as I like. Trying to think of what sort of soft things I can put on my wall. Vintage wool blankets? Can't mount anything too heavy as I don't want to drill holes but I'm sure there's something interesting I could do.

[chris carter]

Great information here! The room doubles as my office and personal room / space.

As for the fiberglass + MDF or Plywood base, does that need to be large (ie the same footprint as my bench) or does it only need to be as big as the feet of my bench themselves?

An additional thing that I found are half sphere rubber pieces that can be glued onto the feet for added isolation, and they also just so happen to be very grippy and keep the bench from moving (I just got some of these and tried on my little Japanese planing board). I think these are great for stopping vibrations from sawing and the like, but maybe not quite enough for chisel work -- at least not chopping straight down. They do seem to make a noticeable difference however! I think this combined with your fiberglass/mdf floor should make for pretty solid sound isolation.

I have 3 windows in a fairly small room, and one of them is very large, but I don't use it and keep the shutters closed. I think I'll buy some thick curtains, maybe with sound proof liners as well, and also plug up the large unused / shuttered window with cardboard. I've been wanting to do this anyway as my room right on top of the corner of two rather noisy roads.

I should also soundproof my door a little. There are huge gaps all around it and I'm sure it's hollow -- I can easily hear people in the living room and vise versa. I'll start with just putting some... I don't know what it's called, but foam gap filling tape around the door. It doesn't need to be perfectly quiet, but I do want to reduce the sound so my wife doesn't get annoyed. She's fairly tolerant, but still.

I have the freedom to decorate my room as I like. Trying to think of what sort of soft things I can put on my wall. Vintage wool blankets? Can't mount anything too heavy as I don't want to drill holes but I'm sure there's something interesting I could do.

The base only has to be large enough for the legs to sit on. FYI - if you are in the US rigid fiberglass is common for industrial applications (you won't find it at home depot; maybe have to order it). In other countries the substitute material is often referred to as rockwool. Rockwool is the same in terms of temperature insulation and sound absorption, but it is considerably softer and probably would not work well for this application.

I would certainly try the rubber pucks if you know your downstairs neighbor and they would be willing to bang on your bench while you listen in their apartment. I doubt it would work as well, but it might be enough. We also make drum platforms with tennis balls cut in half (instead of the rigid fiberglass) and attached to the bottom of the plywood and it also works well. But I'm afraid it would be too bouncy for a workbench sabotaging your mortising efforts.

For windows, if you have the modern style caseless windows, you can a piece of rigid fiberglass 1/8" too long and wide and wedge it in there. Wrap it in some fabric that will look decent from the outside. Long ago when I lived in L.A. and worked out of a large bedroom I did that with two large windows. Very effective. Neighbors never heard a thing even standing at my front door. It's gotta be a TIGHT fit; zero gaps. Of course, while not permanent, it's not something you could reasonably keep taking in and out.

As for the door. You are correct, NO GAPS. Even just a little 1/2" long by 1/32" wide gap can let through a surprising amount of sound (don't ask me about the frustrations of this when I was installing the insulated door for my vocal booth! Ugh). Interior doors have large gaps at the bottom and in a pinch you can shove a towel in there really tight.

BTW - if you don't want to damage walls, you can hang surprisingly heavy blankets with enough thumbtacks. Been there, done that before!

[Matthew Hills]

I'd recommend looking at some of Adrian Preda's videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7vnPPRwjew

[Jim Koepke]

Obviously am fan of the Scandinavian style of bench but I would make the face vise detachable.

Tom, are there specific advantages to a Scandinavian style of front vise?

It is easy to understand if people like it for its design. That is why some folks like a sedan and others like a station wagon.

jtk

[Matthew Hills]

Tom, are there specific advantages to a Scandinavian style of front vise?

The main advantage I'm aware of is that the workpiece is not obstructed by vise hardware.

[Jim Koepke]

The main advantage I'm aware of is that the workpiece is not obstructed by vise hardware.

Thanks Matthew, that could be an advantage for some work. In my case with a bench of only five feet in length, there have been times of holding an eight foot board being necessary.

One thing that is used all the time is the apron on my bench. Many people say it interferes with clamping. The Sjöberg apron is only a few inches as compared to many twelve inch or deeper aprons. For me it has never interfered with clamping at the front of the bench or to the front of the bench.

jtk

[Luke Dupont]

For the record, I'm not actually going to do the Scandinavian style vise.

I'm looking to make something like this:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...AAAAB0AAAAAEAY

If you search "Sloyd workbench" you'll get a bunch of this style of bench. A lot of them seem to have been built for schools and have folding legs on a hinge. Unfortunately, I calculated and I don't quite have enough room for such a fold up design, but I see no real advantage from legs that can be easily detached.

My current thought is to make the legs "dry pegged" or mortised into the base, reinforced with a fastener or two, but not glued. Or maybe just fasteners, I don't know -- I'll have to look at the hardware store again to see if there's anything that looks any better than a plain old bolt. I'm not terribly knowledgeable of hardware and hardware connections, so am not sure what is appropriate.

For reference, there are actually two parts to the way in which the legs mount. There is a board connecting the two legs spanning the top and the bottom, which I will connect via mortise and tenon, but there is another board of the same type that spans the width of the top and raises the leg assembly on each side above the vise hardware. So each leg assembly is not actually attached directly flush to the bottom (as I would have had to cut through holes for the vise screw and guides) but rather raised off of the bottom by a spanning beam. That should theoretically expand my mounting options a bit.

The stretchers in the middle of the legs will be wide, and I'll have a through tennon capped with a removable wedge (btw, any tips on how to make this? I mean, I can guess it's just a mortise with a wedge, but do you "set it in" by a millimeter or two in order that it "tightens up" against the tennon walls on the other side of the mortise? Or do you just cut it to be flush with the leg?)

For better or worse, I started building that style of bench, and figure I can just slap more mass on it if it's too light or noisy. Top is glued up (flat gluing boards is really hard as I expected, should have clamped with screws while the glue was wet... but it turned out okay I guess.)

I like a high bench around 36-38" but I figure I had better stick with 32"-33" due to the narrowness of the base, and the fact that I'll have some combination of rubber / cork / fiberglass underneath the legs. The little rubber half spheres I tested, and they seem to be super grippy, so at least the bench shouldn't move away from me while planing, even if it's light. I'm only worried about the rigidness of the top and if it will act as a soundboard or not. We'lll see.

Considering gluing a half inch, or 3/4" boards of cork on the underside of the bench to absorb some sound and keep the top from acting as a drum (though the leg assembly, vises, and even dog holes should help to counteract that affect I imagine, so it may not even be an issue).

As usual I'm just doing this all with construction grade lumber, and am not getting too terribly fancy with it, but am trying to make it look presentable!

[David Bassett]

It sounds to me like you want a Moravian bench.

+1!

Also search here for Moravian Bench threads. Ken Hatch is an enthusiast and has built several, of different sizes, and posted rather complete build threads.

(Also, if bootstrapping yourself thru a bench build is daunting, Mike Siemsen's "The Naked Woodworker", that's naked as without tools, not without clothes (stupid cutesy title), starts with a couple home center buckets, takes you thru a used tool swap meet, and then builds a couple saw benches and finishes with a Nicholson style workbench. LAP has it for streaming and it may be available elsewhere. BTW- the Moravian bench would be better, lighter & knockdown, for an apartment, but the bootstrap techniques in the video could be adapted to the different design and might provide tips you find helpful.)

[David Bassett]

... As far as space, I'm thinking the largest I should go with is around 18" x 36". ...

At this size what Christopher Schwarz called a "Milkman's Workbench" might be a good choice. He made several blog posts while at PopWood, e.g:

The Milkman’s Workbench in Use

Also, Red Rose Productions has, at least once, produced a batch of these. (They look exquisite on his Instagram feed, but of course aren't cheap. Nor would shipping to Japan be inexpensive I imagine.)

I've got to say my intuition is that the Moravian design, stretched to 4 or 5 feet, even at 18" deep, would be easier to work on and more satisfying. Of course, if that won't fit it won't fit.

... In particular, how would you limit the vibrations that the bench imparts to the floor? ...

Search "vibration damping pads". The result I get are all US sources, but I see them for noise isolating air compressors, washing machines, and while I don't find it quickly I remember them for amateur telescope mounts too. They'd be easy to try to see if they do enough.

... 2. How are the legs attached? They seem to not be attached by all that much. These things don't rack? ...

Oh, some of them rack plenty.

I think the typical leg to top attachment is either Roubo style mortises or lag bolts thru the upper stretchers into the top. The latter seems to fit your situation better. I'd consider a clearance hole at front and a matching slot in the rear of the stretcher to allow for wood movement of the top.

But see the Moravian bench build, article and threads here, for proven ideas.

... 3. How is the top made? How thick is the top typically? ...

Usually they are laminated. Around here seems like a 1-1/2" thick counter top goes on sale every so often, which would save you ripping, joining, and laminating raw wood for the top. I'd worry that'd be too thin to work well with traditional holdfasts, but those holdfasts would be noisy and maybe not suitable anyway. I expect a 1" to 1-1/2" top would work fine with dogs and the various clamps designed to work w/dog holes, e.g. by Lee Valley or Festool.

[David Bassett]

Sorry, another thought...

At the risk of causing overload, I remembered a simple bench designed by Jim McConnell (james_son_of_james) when he was working to outfit a new shop for a new school opening in his area. He has let his blog go inactive, but I found (one of?) his articles:

The student bench takes shape

If you dig around (April & March 2018 is where I see articles, but there may be others) you'll find more info on his (now) dormant blog.