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Thread: Mobile/Storable CNC for small shop

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Might as well go ahead and get a 5x10 unit with vacuum table and tool changer with that logic. It's just a one-time expense.
    Ha. Well that might be true, except I have space requirements. I was looking at that vacuum table though for the Stinger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    If you buy the cnc that you really need the first time you won't need to upgrade anytime soon. The problem is that it's hard to know just what you do need until you get into it and find out your initial budget, requirements or expectations were unrealistic.
    Yeah, therein lies the trick. I'm tired of buying, and selling equipment in fairly short order. I'd rather spend a bit more on a CNC, get something that will allow me to grow, or not have anything at all, just trying to figure out what that sweet spot is, and if I want to spend the money for it. Too many tools that I "cheaped" out on that ultimately wasted more money than saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    It wouldn't be a bad idea to visit users with various machines and talk to them about what they are doing, what features they need and don't need, what restrictions they have found with their setups and so on so that you can clarify what it is that you really want to invest in. As with any enterprise involving software controlling specialized hardware there's a significant investment of time learning how to run the system aside from the money, so do your due diligence. The vendors should have a list of customers who are willing to share their experience, and you can investigate various fora such as cnczone, camheads, shopbot, and vectric among others.
    Good advice, I'll have to ask, although of all the companies I contacted, I only got one response. I think these companies are slammed.

  2. #17
    Join Date
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    I agree with Kevin's suggestion...talk to owners. I can't point at resources for other vendors, but on Camheads which is the Camaster community, there's an actual map that shows owners' locations and contact information (voluntarily provided by them) so you can potentially visit with an owner. Don't worry about exact model, although if there's an owner of one in your area, that would certainly be a good choice. Rather, focus on how they feel about the quality of the machine and quality of support as well as how broad and helpful the owner community is.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    focus on how they feel about the quality of the machine and quality of support as well as how broad and helpful the owner community is.
    That is a very good point about support. When you need a part or have a problem with your machine, especially as a newcomer to cnc, you want to be able to talk to a tech who can give you solid support in a reasonable time frame. Also, some vendors support a forum specific to their line where you will find knowledgeable and helpful folks who have run into similar issues. I had a WIN-CNC controller problem and someone on the camheads forum voluntarily wrote a fix for me which I would have never figured out on my own.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I agree with Kevin's suggestion...talk to owners. I can't point at resources for other vendors, but on Camheads which is the Camaster community, there's an actual map that shows owners' locations and contact information (voluntarily provided by them) so you can potentially visit with an owner. Don't worry about exact model, although if there's an owner of one in your area, that would certainly be a good choice. Rather, focus on how they feel about the quality of the machine and quality of support as well as how broad and helpful the owner community is.
    Good points.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    278
    I love my Stinger II 4 x 4 but I wouldn't call it portable. Built like a battleship and weighs somewhere around 900 to 1000 lbs.
    Richard Link

    **********************

  6. #21
    I'm not a CNC expert by any measure, but since you mentioned the AVID, I'd thought I'd offer my experience. Let me qualify first...I am a hobby user. I don't use my machine to make money. I build furniture and lots of other "stuff." I've used the machine to cut wood, brass, aluminum, plastic, engrave marble, circuit boards, engrave glass, engrave slate, cut cardboard, vinyl, stencil material, inlays, veneer, etc. I don't do any "3D" stuff -not my thing and it takes too long! I rarely use sheet goods (sorry, but I'm a plywood hater), but I usually buy those handy panels at Lowes/HD and they fit on the machine. I do use MDF for some utility things (don't 'like' it either, but...).

    I have an AVID Standard 24x48 machine that is around 4 years old - wow, time flies! I use Mach 4 and Vetric Pro (working on using Fusion freebie). My machine has a Porter cable 1617 router on it. My shop is pretty small - 16x20. The footprint of the base ( I made it 2x4's) is a bit bigger than the 24x48 capacity. Mine is on casters, but I rarely move it and then just a few inches for cleaning or finding a lost screw under it, etc. (Note that the base does not rest on the casters - they are engaged when needed using scissor jacks) I've only had a few minor issues and AVID was very quick to respond (mostly user error or lack of knowledge). I really could have been happy with a 24x24 machine. Sometimes, I wish I had done that because of the space issue. But, its there when I do need it.

    I chose AVID because it was in my budget range and also, while researching, I noticed nobody complained about them or talked much about having to modify their machines (unlike others in the price range just below theirs).

    I have never really considered investing in a spindle. Just don't see the need for my usage. This Bosch router has been pretty impressive. I don't know how many hours I've put on that poor thing and it still just keeps on going. And it was a couple of years old when I put it in use on the machine!

    One thing to consider in budgeting is all the support items. I probably doubled the price of the base machine itself after buying all the other stuff.

    Good luck. Its a big decision. Have fun with whatever you pick. Once you get one, you will find tons of things to use it for. I think I posted this in another response recently, but I was working on a cabinet the other day and needed a shelf pin template with unique spacing to use with those fancy bits. I think it took around 30 minutes from concept to finished product.

    Tony

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Leonard View Post
    I'm not a CNC expert by any measure, but since you mentioned the AVID, I'd thought I'd offer my experience. Let me qualify first...I am a hobby user. I don't use my machine to make money. I build furniture and lots of other "stuff." I've used the machine to cut wood, brass, aluminum, plastic, engrave marble, circuit boards, engrave glass, engrave slate, cut cardboard, vinyl, stencil material, inlays, veneer, etc. I don't do any "3D" stuff -not my thing and it takes too long! I rarely use sheet goods (sorry, but I'm a plywood hater), but I usually buy those handy panels at Lowes/HD and they fit on the machine. I do use MDF for some utility things (don't 'like' it either, but...).

    I have an AVID Standard 24x48 machine that is around 4 years old - wow, time flies! I use Mach 4 and Vetric Pro (working on using Fusion freebie). My machine has a Porter cable 1617 router on it. My shop is pretty small - 16x20. The footprint of the base ( I made it 2x4's) is a bit bigger than the 24x48 capacity. Mine is on casters, but I rarely move it and then just a few inches for cleaning or finding a lost screw under it, etc. (Note that the base does not rest on the casters - they are engaged when needed using scissor jacks) I've only had a few minor issues and AVID was very quick to respond (mostly user error or lack of knowledge). I really could have been happy with a 24x24 machine. Sometimes, I wish I had done that because of the space issue. But, its there when I do need it.

    I chose AVID because it was in my budget range and also, while researching, I noticed nobody complained about them or talked much about having to modify their machines (unlike others in the price range just below theirs).

    I have never really considered investing in a spindle. Just don't see the need for my usage. This Bosch router has been pretty impressive. I don't know how many hours I've put on that poor thing and it still just keeps on going. And it was a couple of years old when I put it in use on the machine!

    One thing to consider in budgeting is all the support items. I probably doubled the price of the base machine itself after buying all the other stuff.

    Good luck. Its a big decision. Have fun with whatever you pick. Once you get one, you will find tons of things to use it for. I think I posted this in another response recently, but I was working on a cabinet the other day and needed a shelf pin template with unique spacing to use with those fancy bits. I think it took around 30 minutes from concept to finished product.

    Tony
    Thanks Tony, great information.

  8. #23
    I wanted to follow up on this thread. I've gotten quotes for the Stinger I and II. With all the options added on, they are expensive.

    As a reminder, my big concern is space. I've come to the conclusion there is no way for me to fit a 4x4 machine, which is more like 6'x7'. The Stinger I SR-24, is more like 3'x6', and more manageable.

    Here are my questions:

    1. Is the 1.7kW spindle enough? The SR-44 comes with a 5kW HSD Spindle.
    2. Do I need the 2/3 Servo Upgrade? (Teknic Clearpath SDSK)
    3. I think the 7kW spindle will add some value in addition to woodworking, is anyone using this option?

    My concern is the size of the unit being only 2' wide. I'm working on primarily furniture so it seems like 2'x4' is fairly sufficient, any thoughts? Specifically, anyone with a 4'x4' unit (JIM) how often do you use the 4x4, and is it mostly for sheet goods?

    Keenly interested in your feedback Jim. I was planning to use the slider for sheet goods, and the CNC for fine work. While I mainly do furniture, I also do some cabinets etc, or panels for furniture.

    Derek

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Your max spindle size on the SR-24 is the 1.7kw version, I believe, but maybe the 3kw is also available. The Stinger II SR-44 can go higher, 3kw was the limit when I bought if I'm not mistaken, but maybe the 5kw was available then. A 7kw unit on there may require three phase power from the wall, but I could be wrong about that. That spindle wasn't offered when I was buying. The 1.7kw has been very satisfying for me, even on the larger Stinger II SR-44. The 3kw may not buy you much on the smaller machine because it can't move as fast or far so you may not benefit from more power. I'm not sure that the servo upgrade is worth it for the SR-24 unless you are doing extremely intricate work including detailed non-ferrous metal machining. I know the servos are available for the Stinger II, but was unaware they were an option for the smaller machine anyway. My Stinger II has the heavier 900 oz NEMA 34 motors and they have been rock solid. I probably would have opted for the servos had they been available, but that would have been more like a "Tim the toolman grunt" situation.

    As to your size question, I've rarely used the full 49x50" space (I tweaked the cutting area to be a hair longer in configuration) and those times it was more or less for half-sheets used for either tack trunks or for some reproduction architectural elements I cut for a client one time. I think that Z-height is more critical for furniture parts, particularly if you intend to do deep mortising from one side. Why? You need for the longer tooling necessary for that kind of task to be able to clear the top of the material. I wish I would have gotten the gantry lift on my machine, although that doesn't really change the total movement available on the Z-axis. As painful as it is for me to say it, being a solid Camaster happy customer, if Z-axis is critical to the actual work to be performed, the Stinger series may not be the best choice, in all honesty. For everything else, no brainer for me...great machine and company. For a very Z-axis centric need...I'd actually consider AVID, despite their machines being lighter weight. You can get major league Z-movement there. So as part of your decision here, Derek, consider what you actually want/need to cut.

    If for some reason I end up having to make my "temporary shop" in the "garage" permanent, I may seriously consider moving smaller to the SR--24 as it will cut the size of things I need to cut at this point. I'm not doing business-business anymore, so it's all personal work, such as guitars and furniture parts as well as personalization of charcuterie boards for a friend. If that situation occurs, I have to make space for finishing, etc., which I'm woefully without in the 21x21 space I'm currently using.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 12-09-2021 at 1:25 PM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
    Join Date
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    friend has 5hp spindle on his stinger 2. mainly got because wanted the 24000 speed for some dits he uses.. smaller spindles seem to only go to 18000 rpms.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugene thomas View Post
    friend has 5hp spindle on his stinger 2. mainly got because wanted the 24000 speed for some dits he uses.. smaller spindles seem to only go to 18000 rpms.
    That's good information, Eugene. I didn't know that particular detail. 24K can be very useful for certain kinds of fine detail work for sure. Which spindle did you opt for? (I forget)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #27
    Yeah, the 1.7kW only goes up to 18k. Jim, I started looking at Avid again, The 8.7kW spindle is only 25% more than the Camaster 1.7kW. A bit hard to compare these machines, but I these are somewhat upgradable I guess by buying a new chassis too. Thats the reason I originally started looking at them, someone (earlier in this thread) recommended going small and then upgrading as needed down the road.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I believe, but maybe the 3kw is also available.
    Apparently it is not.

  14. #29
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    May 2009
    Location
    black river falls wisconsin
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    931
    i got 5 hp atc spindal. was not planning on getting atc but they had a deal on when bought. good timing for me and atc is sweeeet.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugene thomas View Post
    i got 5 hp atc spindal. was not planning on getting atc but they had a deal on when bought. good timing for me and atc is sweeeet.
    That was a good decision, IMHO. I'm of the belief that getting all the stuff up front that's really hard to retrofit is a good thing, within budget reason, of course. A little more pain up front is less expensive than buying a whole new machine laster!

    ----

    Derek, this is a really good example of "buying your second machine first". If your actual needs require something or will require something, try to satisfy that up front. I really like Camaster for sure as I noted. The furniture parts thing combined with the smaller capacities is the concern, but the actual nature of those furniture parts comes into play. Only you can determine that. If you make really heavy constructed stuff there might be an issue. But if you make furniture that has more modest component size...less of a concern. Figure out your needs (current and as best as you can, future) now and then choose your solution.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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