Help Buying a Large CNC

[Richard Link]

Hi Josh.

I'm certainly not an expert like Gary or Jim. I've only owned and extensively used one machine. I've had a good experience with Camaster - reliable machine, well built, capable - even though I have one of their lower end machines. The folks that work there are nice and knowledgeable and the forum is excellent. Recently went the path of requesting a quote for a much more expensive machine and it was a bit hard to get anyone to engage, call back, respond to emails. Probably all very busy but it wasn't the most satisfying experience. On the other hand, the Shop Sabre people were extremely welcoming and responsive - knocking out multiple quotes, providing a lot more information, etc. I had been cautioned that they would be "giving me the hard sell" but honestly it was a very positive experience and the way I wanted to be treated by a company I may be sending 20 -40k.

My sense was that Shop Sabre started at a somewhat higher point in the market and was open to more customization - for example, I could spec an ATC on any of their machines whereas the Stingers can only be gotten with manual spindles. There seem to be a lot more options on the Shop Sabre or perhaps they are just better at making it clear what can be optioned. They also don't seem to be as opposed to in the field upgrades - my experience with Camaster on that idea has been basically its a no go. They referred me to a third party CNC upgrade company that wouldn't return my calls. The videos Shop Sabre makes are quite informative (they have a more savy marketing approach, I guess) - something Camaster doesn't seem to do much. They have a forum but it is some sort of facebook group that requires ownership so I can't say whether it holds up to the excellent Camaster forum. Most likely can't go wrong with either company although I only have personal experience of ownership with a Camaster. I am, however, about to put a deposit down on a Shop Sabre as an upgrade given the excellent sales experience I just had.

I assume for 26K you are looking at a Shop Sabre RC8 with a manual spindle? I still think that for a machine of that price the additional 4K for the vacuum setup is well worth it. It seems to me that you are really exploring a much different class of machine when you compare a 4x8 Stinger III or RC8 against a bolt together Avid system. Whether you need all the extra rigidity and capability is up to you. My feeling was that I had no intention of ever having to upgrade again so I wanted something well beyond my anticipated future needs.

Good luck with the quest.

[Jim Becker]

A 4x8 ShopSabre and 4x8 Camaster in the same general category of their respective lineups will be similar. Both are US manufacturers and have stout builds. Richard has pointed out some good observations. I never contacted ShopSabre when I was looking so I don't have any in-depth knowledge or experience with them. I could probably be happy with either, in general. I've extremely pleased with my Camaster machine, purchased in early 2018. It's a beast that does anything I ask it to do. Hard to loose in the shop, too...'cause it's very yellow.

[eugene thomas]

i had stinger 2 . downgraded to shopsabre rc 8. now that have camaster again my 3d work actually comes out clean again.

[Josh Baldwin]

i had stinger 2 . downgraded to shopsabre rc 8. now that have camaster again my 3d work actually comes out clean again.

Can you elaborate on this? Why was it a downgrade? Thanks

[Josh Baldwin]

Hi Josh.

I'm certainly not an expert like Gary or Jim. I've only owned and extensively used one machine. I've had a good experience with Camaster - reliable machine, well built, capable - even though I have one of their lower end machines. The folks that work there are nice and knowledgeable and the forum is excellent. Recently went the path of requesting a quote for a much more expensive machine and it was a bit hard to get anyone to engage, call back, respond to emails. Probably all very busy but it wasn't the most satisfying experience. On the other hand, the Shop Sabre people were extremely welcoming and responsive - knocking out multiple quotes, providing a lot more information, etc. I had been cautioned that they would be "giving me the hard sell" but honestly it was a very positive experience and the way I wanted to be treated by a company I may be sending 20 -40k.

My sense was that Shop Sabre started at a somewhat higher point in the market and was open to more customization - for example, I could spec an ATC on any of their machines whereas the Stingers can only be gotten with manual spindles. There seem to be a lot more options on the Shop Sabre or perhaps they are just better at making it clear what can be optioned. They also don't seem to be as opposed to in the field upgrades - my experience with Camaster on that idea has been basically its a no go. They referred me to a third party CNC upgrade company that wouldn't return my calls. The videos Shop Sabre makes are quite informative (they have a more savy marketing approach, I guess) - something Camaster doesn't seem to do much. They have a forum but it is some sort of facebook group that requires ownership so I can't say whether it holds up to the excellent Camaster forum. Most likely can't go wrong with either company although I only have personal experience of ownership with a Camaster. I am, however, about to put a deposit down on a Shop Sabre as an upgrade given the excellent sales experience I just had.

I assume for 26K you are looking at a Shop Sabre RC8 with a manual spindle? I still think that for a machine of that price the additional 4K for the vacuum setup is well worth it. It seems to me that you are really exploring a much different class of machine when you compare a 4x8 Stinger III or RC8 against a bolt together Avid system. Whether you need all the extra rigidity and capability is up to you. My feeling was that I had no intention of ever having to upgrade again so I wanted something well beyond my anticipated future needs.

Good luck with the quest.

Thanks for all the feedback Richard. Yea what scares me about the ShopSabre is that I started at 10k then 15k then thinking ok maybe 25k and now maybe 30k with vacuum, haha. Man it's just soooo much money. But I have also really enjoyed their customer service so far. Every question I ask is immediately answered and very well thought out answers, not just marketing crap.

That's all great to know about the upgrades with Camaster vs ShopSabre. Are there any other brands that you considered in this price range? Just curious about the options out there. The only thing I'm not thrilled about is the $4500 spindle upgrade. Just seems like a ton of money, but then again I don't think the router makes a lot of sense from a reliability, accuracy and noise level. But maybe I'm overthinking it.

[Josh Baldwin]

A 4x8 ShopSabre and 4x8 Camaster in the same general category of their respective lineups will be similar. Both are US manufacturers and have stout builds. Richard has pointed out some good observations. I never contacted ShopSabre when I was looking so I don't have any in-depth knowledge or experience with them. I could probably be happy with either, in general. I've extremely pleased with my Camaster machine, purchased in early 2018. It's a beast that does anything I ask it to do. Hard to loose in the shop, too...'cause it's very yellow.

I'm sure this doesn't matter much, but any thoughts on the ShopSabre weighing 800lbs more than the Camaster? Seems like a hell of a lot more steel. But does it really matter at a certain point? Does your Camaster have steppers or servos and do you have a spindle or the milwaukee router? Thanks as always for the help Jim!

[Josh Baldwin]

Also there's a guy near me selling a never used Industrial Pro Series CNC. Anyone have any experience with the Industrial brand CNCs?

[Jim Becker]

I'm sure this doesn't matter much, but any thoughts on the ShopSabre weighing 800lbs more than the Camaster? Seems like a hell of a lot more steel. But does it really matter at a certain point? Does your Camaster have steppers or servos and do you have a spindle or the milwaukee router? Thanks as always for the help Jim!

I'm not sure how the different series of Camaster compares to the ShopSabre. The Stinger series (Stinger III if you are going 4x8) are very stout and more than heavy enough for their capabilities. My Stinger II is about a thousand pounds and it does not move no matter what I've done. The next step up (Panther) is a lot more heavier.

My machine has 900 oz NEMA 34 steppers, but the Stinger II and III can now be ordered with servos. A lot of folks seem to be taking advantage of that. There's a cost trade-off so what you want to do and what your needs are come into play on that decision. I have a 1.7kw spindle. Camaster also offers a 3kw spindle on the Stinger II and III. I never considered using a router motor...no way. Noise, not really suited to long run times, not an ER collet setup, etc.

[Richard Link]

I'm with Jim. If a meteor was going to hit my house I would definitely be sheltering under my Stinger II. Heavy and solid. With that said, the most comparable Shopsabre (the RC4) is significantly heavier. I can't imagine recommending a router motor as primary cutting head for a CNC this large - long run times, heat, noise - definitely get the spindle. Camaster has the X3 variations but the side router motors are more adjunctive for secondary tools, I think, and not the workhorse cutting mechanism (owners please correct me). All the Shop Sabres of this generation come with servos although the different levels of router have different motors. You can buy the stinger with servos now although my machine has the steppers and I never found them to be a problem. I suspect the servos might be more critical if you are doing a lot of double sided machining or really hogging out 3/4" cuts in one pass with a big spindle in which case breaking a bit or bogging down somehow could unmask the limitations of steppers.

Are you buying something this large because you intend to do an occasional large project (like flattening a slab, maybe dabbling with an occasional cabinet) or are you doing so because you intend to pump panels through this thing at a high frequency for nested parts and lots of cabinets? For the former, somewhat sub specialized job, I guess your requirements for a big spindle and vacuum are less but you are investing a lot of space consumption into a machine you will use occasionally for big stuff. If the latter then the spindle and vacuum will become very much a necessity and not so much a luxury.

[eugene thomas]

not sure how comparable the rc is to stinger. friend just sold his rc 4 and bought stinger 2. probally lost 10 grand in the deal but has cnc that works for him.....

[Richard Link]

Eugene - I appreciate your brevity of comment but would you mind elaborating a bit for the OP and any of us who aren’t already in on the story? On paper, the RC seems slightly uprated from the base stinger with more steel, a structural steel gantry, bigger spindle, servos instead of steppers, same wincnc. You are implying that the machine doesn’t work? Tech support is lacking? Misrepresented in marketing? Overpriced? What exactly? After a decent search over the past few weeks I haven’t found much criticism of the shopsabre machines out there on the web. You seem to be a rare dissenter but certainly someone we want to hear from. Is your criticism specific to the RC, all their machines or aimed at the company as a whole?

[eugene thomas]

i was looking to go from stinger 2 to stinger 3. heard about ss and all. checked out and told salesman what do with cnc. he asured me the rc 8 would work. bought it and started using. the 3d on stinger 2 came out clean. on the rc was lines that didnt belong. went back and forth with tech suport. even hauled cnc back to them and paid 2 grand for them to change rack and pinion on x axis to ball screw. still didnt cut clean, got it to cut clean as could at around 75 to max 100 ipm in 3 d. finally figured have to live with it and just make work. 4 and hslf years later had house done and was thinking maybe can get this cnc working better. when tech support told me i should of bought their higher priced cnc for what wanted to do for second time i sold it and bought camaster again. now the 3d comes out clean and cuts fast...... if didn't have the stinger before the rc might of believed the line from tech support.
who knows the "redesigned" rc might be great but ....

[Jerome Stanek]

I have run both a router and a spindle. Yes the spindle is quieter but the router is a cost efficient solution. I have run the router foe an 8 hr 3d cut with no problem. I would check and see how hard it would be to upgrade to a spindle

[Jim Becker]

I would check and see how hard it would be to upgrade to a spindle

Physically swapping out a router for a spindle after the fact is the "easy" part. It's the software integration that often isn't as clean with an "upgrade" compared to buying the machine with it up-front. Having full software control of the spindle is a very desirable thing. This certainly varies with make and model of CNC machine, of course.

[Jerome Stanek]

Physically swapping out a router for a spindle after the fact is the "easy" part. It's the software integration that often isn't as clean with an "upgrade" compared to buying the machine with it up-front. Having full software control of the spindle is a very desirable thing. This certainly varies with make and model of CNC machine, of course.

That is what I was getting at how easy is it. On my unit it is very easy