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Thread: Electric Cars

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    Unfortunately, for those who commute to work during the day there usually isn't a place to charge the car to use some of that solar generated electricity.
    Sounds like a potential additional source of revenue for someone operating a parking lot especially ones with valet service. Add charging stations to the lot and have lot attendants move the cars around as needed to access the chargers or use extended cables to move the charger to the car. Add the cost of the charge plus service charge to the bill.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    ... push the electric vehicle fee to $250 per year ...
    Not many of the cost comparisons here include this, but most state road maintenance is paid for via motor fuel taxes, at least in states where I have lived (1 city uses bond issues :: streets are a tank trap) - - YMMV. As EVs gain market share, either the roads suffer, or EVs pay their (fair?) share.

    It will be interesting to see how this works out... based on GVWR? Mileage driven annually? Maybe shift the road fees over to tire purchases? Or just convert to 100% toll roads?

    Somebody is gonna be grumpy.

  3. #33
    I was part of a study in California to test various ways of charging EVs for use of the highway. My group was based on miles driven. We had a module that plugged into the car and tracked how many miles we drove in state (it used GPS). As far as I was concerned, it worked fine, but others may object to the "tracking" that's possible since they monitor usage of the vehicle with GPS.

    The good part is that you were only charged for in-state miles. Another group reported mileage from the odometer but that could include out of state travel.

    I guess no technique is perfect. I expect they will let people decide how they want to report their usage. In CA you have to have your vehicle smog checked every few years so the smog check could report your mileage to keep you honest. It may report your mileage as part of the smog check today, anyway.

    The study did not take into account vehicle weight but that could be done. So, your charge per mile could be less for a small vehicle and more for a very heavy vehicle.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Not many of the cost comparisons here include this, but most state road maintenance is paid for via motor fuel taxes, at least in states where I have lived (1 city uses bond issues :: streets are a tank trap) - - YMMV. As EVs gain market share, either the roads suffer, or EVs pay their (fair?) share.
    I'm not against paying my fair share for road taxes. However, $250 a year is at least $100 per year more than I pay for 12,000 miles in a 23 MPG gasoline car. An electric car would be a second vehicle for me and would probably see about 6,000 miles per year meaning I would pay over double the road tax than the average driver of a gasoline car. States want people to buy electric cars to reduce highway emissions, but it doesn't help if they tax them at a higher rate than gas cars.

    One of the arguments people used to justify owning electric cars was no road taxes, but that is going away, or has already gone away.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I was part of a study in California to test various ways of charging EVs for use of the highway. My group was based on miles driven. We had a module that plugged into the car and tracked how many miles we drove in state (it used GPS). As far as I was concerned, it worked fine, but others may object to the "tracking" that's possible since they monitor usage of the vehicle with GPS.
    There are a great many people who are dead set against GPS tracking of vehicles for road taxes. Law enforcement will certainly be asking judges to allow them to see the data to determine which drivers where in the area of crimes. People don't want to be hassled by the police just because they happened to be 1/4 mile from a shooting. Criminals will just not install the devices or otherwise disable them. Any politician who votes for GPS tracking is risking political suicide.

    Odometer tracking is fraught with issues. If I pay by the mile for state roads why should I pay for miles I drove in another state? Odometer fraud would be through the roof. We'll figure out a new way to pay for roads and I can almost guarantee most drivers will hate it for one reason or another.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post

    In CA you have to have your vehicle smog checked every few years so the smog check could report your mileage to keep you honest. It may report your mileage as part of the smog check today, anyway.

    Mike
    Please tell me California doesn't require electric vehicles to be smog checked.

  7. #37
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    As electric vehicles replace ICE vehicles it wouldn't be that hard to replace gas taxes with vehicle charging taxes. Pass legislation requiring EV manufacturers to include some form of system to track charging history in the vehicle software and require car owners to submit a copy of it when you register the vehicle each year.

  8. #38
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    Purchased a Toyota Avalon Hybrid tonight. Drive home was 41 miles at 40 MPG. That was cruising at 70 MPH. I'm still learning all the features it has. Toyota has proven to have the hybrid system well refined. Maybe a step towards a plug in down the road but this bridges the gap well for now.

  9. #39
    if you have an electric car do you carry battery cables

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    if you have an electric car do you carry battery cables
    Just the cable that you use to charge your car. Not jumper cables.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  11. #41
    Yeah, Poor attempt to sound like Steven Wright. I joke about other electric cars but take it further I guess then they cant boost a gas car if needed? Totally different systems likely.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    Yeah, Poor attempt to sound like Steven Wright. I joke about other electric cars but take it further I guess then they cant boost a gas car if needed? Totally different systems likely.
    Most (all?) of them have a 12V battery to power auxiliary systems...not quite sure why, but there ya go.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud View Post
    Most (all?) of them have a 12V battery to power auxiliary systems...not quite sure why, but there ya go.

    Just to make ICE drivers comfortable?-- if your 12V battery is dead you can't start your electric car. I think, but am not sure, that it is required to power up the DC-DC voltage converter, and to power the contactor that isolates the high voltage battery when it is not in use. It also powers the 12v accessories, from window motors to windshield wipers. Lead-acid 12 v batteries seem to fail a lot in this use, attributed to not having the heavy draw of starting current. They are starting to be replaced with Li-ion batteries.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    I think, but am not sure, that it is required to power up the DC-DC voltage converter, and to power the contactor that isolates the high voltage battery when it is not in use.
    Ah, that's the first explanation I've heard that sounds at all reasonable. (I'll assume that "in use" includes "while charging".)

    Clearly the main battery system has a 12V output, otherwise it couldn't (re)charge the 12V battery. I didn't realize it got that isolated when the car was shut off, given the current trend (no pun intended) in ICE cars to have some systems drawing off the battery 24/7.
    Last edited by Lee DeRaud; 10-12-2021 at 12:11 PM.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  15. #45
    One thing I think ALL electric vehicles should have is a 120 volt 60 Hz outlet that you could plug something into. For example, when there's a power outage, you could plug in your refrigerator or freezer.

    Or if you were out somewhere and needed power you could access it. I had a flat tire one time and couldn't get the lug nuts off because the gorilla at the tire place put them on too tight. I could carry a corded impact driver for those kind of problems. I had to wait for AAA to come with an impact driver.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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