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Thread: Electric Cars

  1. #121
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    There are quite a few folks who do conversions out there, many using salvage Tesla batteries and motors in conjunction with some software folks who know how to rig things to get it all to work. I watched a video on the 'Tube the other day of one such project. It actually seems to be becoming "a thing", spawning some special shows and events that focus on conversion vehicles.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #122
    There's no doubt that you can convert a vehicle to electric. But for an everyday usable vehicle the question is whether it would be cheaper to just purchase a standard electric vehicle. A converted vehicle will have very little resale value - where would the buyer get it serviced or even get parts for it.

    People have been modifying and customizing vehicles for years, such as a street rod (or hot rod). But that's strictly for their enjoyment. If you look at how much money they put into those vehicles you'd probably discover it's a lot more than purchasing a new standard vehicle. Many of those customized vehicles are not even street legal.

    I really question if an ICE vehicle can be converted to electric in a cost effective manner for use as a standard household vehicle - and meet legal requirements. The only market I see for conversion is for show type cars.

    Mike

    [I did restoration on old Porsches years ago and that was only to bring them back to close to the original condition. Just doing that can cost a lot (a whole lot) more than the vehicle cost new. And that was not considering my labor cost - just parts and contracted work, such as painting and upholstery.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 10-22-2021 at 10:49 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  3. #123
    Watch some you tubes and see how far it has gone.

    Nothing new about restorations, people spend 200k restoring classic cars and some are not worth a quarter of that if sold. Still those people doing the restoration work have more work than they can handle.

    Im sure EV would not agree with you, at the moment he has 3 1/2 years work booked. Cant really think of anyone I know who has 3 years work booked ahead of time.

    I never thought about paying attention to it. Now they get what ive said for a long time. Bring back some of the old body styles with new technology and some of them are doing that, More and more of them are getting people want to do it to old stuff they already own hence GM crate motors whenever they arrive or Tesla selling motors to people or others.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    Maybe true but the predicted battery life is 10 to 20 years not 5 years and the average cost to replace is $5500 not $10000. The average gasoline engine car lasts about 12 years.
    The cost should be coming down but I have never seen a battery last more than five years and by the time you get to five years it will have less than 50% capacity. I work with batteries in my systems and I challenge anyone out there, how many of you have a car, phone, laptop or alarm and have a battery in it that is ten to twenty years old and takes a full charge? Unless they have come out with a new super battery I think electric cars will flood the used car market as people want to let the next owner deal with that $5K to 10K hit.

  5. #125
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    Most of the battery banks I’ve worked with get to 80% capacity around 14 years of age, for flooded lead acid.

    Large VRLA cells last almost as long…..Rod.

  6. #126
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    Yes, conversions are "specialty vehicles" at the present time and I don't expect that there will be any reason or advantage to any kind of mass changeover. But it's a neat option for folks who want to take, say...a classic vehicle, such as an older "muscle car" and put a 1000 hop of pure electric power under it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Clausen View Post
    The cost should be coming down but I have never seen a battery last more than five years and by the time you get to five years it will have less than 50% capacity. I work with batteries in my systems and I challenge anyone out there, how many of you have a car, phone, laptop or alarm and have a battery in it that is ten to twenty years old and takes a full charge? Unless they have come out with a new super battery I think electric cars will flood the used car market as people want to let the next owner deal with that $5K to 10K hit.
    Tesla must know something you don't, because their warranty guarantees >70% capacity for 8 years or 120k miles...

  8. #128
    I think federal law requires EV makers to warrantee a battery for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. Some makers go further. Here's a list of the warrantee from different makers:

    Battery life is determined more by the number of charge cycles, and not by years. You probably charge your smartphone every night. You should not charge your EV except when it needs it, same as you don't put gas into it every day. Fast charging (super charging) can cause a lot of heat which can degrade a battery.


    • Audi Eight years/100,000 miles
    • BMW Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Honda Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Hyundai Eight years/125,000 miles
    • Kia Seven years/100,000 miles
    • Mercedes Eight years/100,000 miles
    • MG Seven years/80000 miles
    • Jaguar Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Nissan Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Polestar Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Porsche Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Renault Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Seat Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Smart Eight years/62500 miles
    • Tesla Eight years/120,000 miles (150,000 miles for the Model S and Model X)
    • VW Eight years/100,000 miles
    • Volvo Eight years/ 100,000 miles

    Mike

    [Here's a very good discussion of battery life.]
    [Here's another link to battery life.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 10-23-2021 at 3:56 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  9. #129
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    Way more engineering goes into an electric car battery than into a phone battery. Most electric car batteries have sophisticated thermal management systems to keep the battery in the optimum temperature range. The original Nissan Leaf did not have much in the way of thermal management and those batteries degrade pretty quickly.

  10. #130
    Here is my current (current) attery story. 3

    Years ago I bouight a skoot about car for long drives to long term care for my mom as it was far. I got all the paperwork from it and saw it had a new Delco Battery put in. Then I saw 2 years later a new Delco batter replaced under warranty. In the month now the car has not started twice. I checked and it read 12.26. Higher than I would have thought for a no start. Trickle charger on and it was charging at over 14 amps so the battery was thirsty. So time for a battery and fine.

    I only use Interstate batteries last while and I oversize one or two sizes what ever I can physically get in. I looked at the space and unless I cut some metal I wont be going over size. Reading about interstate batteries to see the model I can fit I saw there were three different quality levels of hose batteries. Something I dont think ever was presented to me from the supplier. Id have to check but the one in the truck is likely six years old at least.

    Now the replacement Delco in the car, its exactly 8 years old so the first one lasted two years and this one has lasted 8 years bang on. Thats pretty damn good.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Tesla must know something you don't, because their warranty guarantees >70% capacity for 8 years or 120k miles...
    Wasn't aware of the warranties and I suppose a loss of 50% at five years is a generalization but is close to what I see in fire alarm systems which are Sealed Lead Acid. My car battery will always need to be replaced at around year four. I always buy the top rated battery one level below the marine model. Once I get to a cold day and hear the starter struggle its time. I must admit that 8 years with 30% capacity loss is a lot closer to 5 years and 50% than 15 to 20 years. So I guess the question is will someone be willing to pay for an eight year old car knowing that it is likely going to need a full battery set? Not arguing the point but saying it will be interesting to see how the market behaves as these car age to that magic point.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I think federal law requires EV makers to warrantee a battery for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. Some makers go further. Here's a list of the warrantee from different makers:

    Battery life is determined more by the number of charge cycles, and not by years. You probably charge your smartphone every night. You should not charge your EV except when it needs it, same as you don't put gas into it every day. Fast charging (super charging) can cause a lot of heat which can degrade a battery.



    Mike

    [Here's a very good discussion of battery life.]
    [Here's another link to battery life.]
    Hah!, You haven't met my wife. If the gas tank is at half full it's empty to her. I am sure she will be a battery abuser.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Clausen View Post
    So I guess the question is will someone be willing to pay for an eight year old car knowing that it is likely going to need a full battery set? Not arguing the point but saying it will be interesting to see how the market behaves as these car age to that magic point.
    Comparing a sealed 12V lead/acid battery to a 450V thermally regulated 4860 Li pack is like comparing parallel parking to landing on The Moon.

    With the average age of American cars above 12, there are plenty of vehicles still on the road long after the manufacturer stops covering parts and labor for repairs. It may not be immediately obvious, but few cars stop working when the warranty ends.

    The major stumbling block to is the Osborne effect, as available EVs are few and newer models are announced regularly.

    https://electrek.co/2021/08/12/tesla...-200000-miles/

  14. #134
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    I saw about as 10% degradation of capacity on my Tesla P85D after 80K miles. I thought that was pretty reasonable. Still had 204 miles on a typical charge.

    We'll see how the new one does. Brand new today it shows 356 miles of charge with the typical 90% charge it goes to on a normal charge. Which means, I could get more miles, but not a good thing to do regularly.

    How long would this last stuck in a snowstorm? I have no clue, but clearly a long time.
    - When God closes a door, he opens a window. Our heating bill is outrageous & six raccoons got in last night. Please God, this has to stop!
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  15. #135
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    Here's an interesting article comparing the current cost of operating EV vs. ICE vehicles.

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...as/6110815001/

    Note: freep is the Detroit Free Press which is part of the USAToday chain of newspapers.
    "Don't worry. They couldn't possibly hit us from that dist...."

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