The government just needs to up the tax on tires and dump the tax on gas. It would be better for the environment too. Suddenly people would be paying attention to how long tires last vs ones that need replacing in a short amount of miles.
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The government just needs to up the tax on tires and dump the tax on gas. It would be better for the environment too. Suddenly people would be paying attention to how long tires last vs ones that need replacing in a short amount of miles.
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You'd think there would be an automatic gas nozzle, too, no?Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr
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Do higher grip (shorter lifetime) summer tires wear the road more than long-lived all-seasons? I'd agree that cost of responsible disposal should be built into tire prices, but that's a different question.
Seems to me that having every owner pay for road use based on actual miles driven, independent of power source, would be the most fair route to take. And I'd be all in favor of that fee being high enough to maintain the roads at a decent standard. My cost, in bent rims and more serious damage to the undercarriage of my car, has dwarfed what I've paid in road taxes over the years.
The arguments that there are some use cases where electrics aren't the best solution and therefore no one should convert just don't hold water. Consumers will vote with their feet, no matter what, taking their own personal circumstances and uses as a guide. I personally think we've reached the tipping point where the advantages of electric vehicles will make them the best choice for a significant majority of new car buyers within the decade. I don't own one yet, but having just gone out and done a round of test drives I'm absolutely convinced that my next car will be an electric-- because it is flat out a better vehicle than any ICE car I can afford. Range and charging availability, for me, in my part of the country, and for the way I use a car, has reached the point of being a non-issue. Given their abundance on the roads here I'm not alone in that. The vehicle I'm looking at also has the highest percentage of "made in USA" content of any car currently sold, and I feel good about that as well.
At some point in the past the Detroit Electric was about the hottest selling car in the US-- one of the primary arguments in its favor was that fuel was often hard to find, but almost everyone who could afford a car had electricity right at home where they could power it up. In another example of consumers voting with their feet and the market responding, within a decade fuel was ubiquitous and gas cars owned the market. I'm thinking in 10-15 yers everyone will wonder what the fuss was about with the conversion back to electrics.
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Am I the only one who sees the irony in this? Some people push back against electric vehicles because of concerns about how they will perform in extreme weather conditions compared to ICE vehicles that contribute to the cause of increasing frequency and severity of extreme weather conditions?
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I'm holding out for 'in-flight' refueling. Just dock with the fuel truck at 75mph, RFID to pay, and keep zippin' along. Might be tough to check the oil, but windshield cleaning too!
Surely there's no way for this to go wrong.
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I cannot edit my post (#2), so I would like to add that my '13 C-Max plug in shows a continuous log of electric Vs gasoline miles driven. It comes on after you shut off the car, and I had forgotten it was there.
As of today, the car has 35,090 total miles, with 28,975 being electric (532 [1.8%] from regeneration), and the rest (6115) running on gasoline. Mostly around town, but a few 600 mile, and one 2500 mile trip...all gasoline.
This gives a pretty accurate report of our real life experience. Again, yours may vary.
My '14 model of the same car does not have this feature. It has 40,885 miles on it. Yes, these are low mileage numbers, we also have a diesel pickup and an old minivan, which we use when needed.
As I said, my '14 model does not have this log. Somewhere between models they started using a new (MPG-E) method of figuring, and apparently dropped the feature.
Last edited by Rick Potter; 10-20-2021 at 4:36 PM.
Rick Potter
DIY journeyman,
FWW wannabe.
AKA Village Idiot.
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In New Zealand Diesel vehicles get two license fees. A yearly plate fee and a mile tax. You have to buy mileage tickets by 5,000? mile increments. Buy more as needed. They can check you odometer at any time. If you run over it is big fine. Not for gas cars. It about doubles the annual fee for normal household use. It was designed when only commercial trucks had diesel engines. Very few diesel cars get sold in NZ because of this tax.
Bill D
Moderator
I also believe that would be the fairest way "in most cases". There would be some challenges, however, including whether self-reporting or electronic tracking would be used.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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In addition to simple miles driven, the weight of the vehicle needs to be taken into account because a heavier vehicle puts more stress on the road. With a gas tax, that is indirectly taken into account because a heavier vehicle generally uses more fuel per mile.
Also, a state should only collect for miles driven in their state. That can be done if a tracking device is used. Today, of course, people who live on a state border generally purchase fuel in the cheapest state.
Reporting miles driven is not a problem if the state has smog inspections every couple of years. Mileage is reported in CA at every smog test. Even if they don't have inspections of some kind, when they go to sell the vehicle, the mileage will be reported and the original owner will have to "even up" for the miles not reported - and maybe pay a penalty.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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Everyone is already tracked by the surgically implanted chip. oops I meant cell phone.
Apparently you're not supposed to leave the house without it.
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I get the point, but I think the privacy train for use of public roads has already left the station. There are cell phone records (which can be subpoenaed), and most people would be shocked if they knew how often their travels are documented by iicense plate readers along roads and streets. That data doesn't even require a subpoena to get, as there is no legal expectation of privacy regarding your presence on a public roadway.
And frankly, if states wanted, they could easily require devices that record mileage in-state without automatically reporting anything other than monthly totals on cars. These would be very easy to build into a modern car.
Moderator
And I don'tIf I'm awake, it's on my person in a belt holster. And I'm fine with that.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
Trust me, you're not the only one.
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Aside from the whole "does not apply to electric cars" thing, new cars here don't get smog-tested for the first 8 years* unless they're resold. E.g. my 2016MY car won't get tested until it's up for registration renewal in 2024. That's a huge hole in the reporting/fee-collection process.
(*I didn't realize this until last month, as my current car is the first new car I'd bought since the rules changed. I expected to see the "smog test required" stamp this year at renewal time, didn't happen. Then it dawned on me that this car had never had a smog test, that's when I looked it up.)
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Not any different than me having to plug in the jacket water heater on my vehicle when I get home, or unplugging it when I use the vehicle….Rod
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