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Thread: Yet Another Dust Collector Thread

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    That's a beautiful, clean install! Wonderful design and setup.

    'Hope you are all feeling better, too!
    Thanks, Jim. We are better. I do agree that it has worked out well. To those who want to do something similar, I will tell that this is not the easy way to run ductwork. Tolerances are tighter and you have to plan ahead to have some adjustment in each branch to fit pipe together. Basically you run pipe from a hole in the floor to the dust collector closet so both ends of a branch are fixed. It was a breakthrough moment to realize I could attach a length of pipe to an elbow coming through the floor. I could easily check the pipe was vertical and could hold it in vertical position with a Irwin one-handed clamp on the pipe and resting on the floor at the hole. Ratchet straps can hold pipe in the plenum to a rafter acting as a second pair of hands while you close a clamp. A long skinny strip of 3/16” plywood on top of the rafters can put a floor under two fittings that need to be aligned for clamping. Elbows have to be aligned in the plane of the rafters. These are not tricks shown in YouTube videos. I referred to my daily battle as wrestling the galvanized python. And, to those who wonder, I would not like to go into business installing dust collector ductwork.

    I can’t wait to get the system energized. There are a few more things for me to do to prepare for wiring. Then, the electrician will wire it up. I can begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

  2. #32
    What is the relative cost of Nordfab pipe and fittings to similar gauge spiral pipe? Is there a major decrease in installation time? I recognize the ease of reconfiguration, but is there a good reason to use it in an inaccessible location?

  3. #33
    Join Date
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    To those who want to do something similar, I will tell that this is not the easy way to run ductwork. Tolerances are tighter and you have to plan ahead to have some adjustment in each branch to fit pipe together. Basically you run pipe from a hole in the floor to the dust collector closet so both ends of a branch are fixed.
    It's a blessing with clamp together duct that the adjustable sleeves for doing shorter lengths than 5' can come in handy for "fine fitting" in these tight situations; at least some of them!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    What is the relative cost of Nordfab pipe and fittings to similar gauge spiral pipe?
    I did not compare spiral pipe and Nordfab prices. I presume Nordfab is more expensive. I compared Blastgate and Nordfab which are similar products. Blastgate is quite a bit cheaper but did not yet have the capability for producing custom parts that I needed. Blastgate was working on getting machines to produce parts like the custom length sleeves I needed but did not have it last October when I asked.

    Is there a major decrease in installation time? I recognize the ease of reconfiguration, but is there a good reason to use it in an inaccessible location?
    I am not an experienced duct installer. I think that spiral duct requires sealing of the joints after assembly using latex caulk and/or metallic tape. Sealing would be incredibly difficult if not impossible in the plenum space where I was working. I could only see the bottom half of the duct. I chose the clamp type connection because it would be far easier to close a tight sealing clamp than caulk or tape a joint.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    My opinion at this point is that the clamp together is the "bee's knees" when it comes to ease of installation and reconfiguration. And it eliminates the taping and slathering necessary when using spiral or other non-clamp together duct work. But it absolutely does come at a price!

    Thomas, I did go with Blastgate for the duct in my temporary shop and will build that out farther when I have a building up. If you ever need to make additions, you can clamp together components from Nordfab, Blastgate, Grizzly, etc., no problem. There are only a few noted incompatibilities (such as the sliding sleeves for variable length straight pipe sections) but otherwise you can mix and match.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Tool ports are the biggest noise generator for me now since the DC is in the other room. I SWAG'd 80-90hz as max allowed for a 'smart' system, but I would look carefully at the impeller diameter of the chosen system. IF you pursued a higher RPM, you can monitor amp draw via the VFD, to see where it drops off as blades stall. The manufacturer will also have a never-exceed-speed for a given impeller. ...I think I mentioned following the manual's advice?
    If the ports are not noisy there is not enough air flowing through the system. The noise can be mitigated to a degree by making them 150mm/6" at the machine as this slows down the air speed but increases the volume providing the ducting is at least 150mm/6". Any smaller and the machine will be starved which does not hurt it but it won't be flowing enough air to do the job it should be. Dust extraction can be looked at as two separate parts, the fine dust that we can't see and causes the most health issues and the big stuff we can sweep up. Most people as long as they trap the latter think the job is done. I'd like to see the proof of 900CFM through a 4" duct, not Oneida say so but solid flow data.
    Last edited by Chris Parks; 01-15-2022 at 9:35 PM.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  7. #37
    My new dust collection system is operational! The electrical connections are finished. I had previously been told the electrical inspector wanted to see the wiring to the floor outlets before we enclosed it. Since that inspector has moved on, the electrician now says we can skip that step and just have a final inspection with all work finished. The general contractor said the sheetrock crew can come in as soon as I have the basement cleared of tools and stored wood. I do need to cut some holes in the floor for return air. I want to hold off until I have cabinets to cover the holes. Right now, air returns through the open basement door. It exerts quite a push on the door. The only bad news is that there is a 20-22 week delivery time for custom, 8' x 10' garage doors to actually finish the functional components of the building.

    Here is the full system hooked up with filter. The closet is as small as you could get and still have room for it all. I will be able to roll the dust bin out of the closet with no trouble. I will be able to remove the filter as needed. I don’t think I can blow the filter externally in place because of the clearance against the back wall.

    DustCollectorInstalled.jpg

    I wired the dust collector power cord to a quick disconnect box like what you might use for an outside heat pump unit. I was able to get a gland connector the right size to make a neat entrance to the box. The power lead from the panel comes in through the back.

    Locating the on/off controls and the dust bin level alarm to the shop worked out well. I will give some details of how that went down in a separate thread. This is the control post between the table saw and planer.

    ControlPost.jpg

    The remote for the new Oneida works better than the old one through the floor, but this relocated controls are so convenient that I hardly use the remote.

    The bin sensor works reasonably well. However there are some things that are different from my previous dust collector which simply turned on when the level reached the setpoint. First, the approach recommended by Oneida to prevent false alarm from the optical signal reflecting the shiny metal drum bottom is to put a cardboard disk which they supply in the bottom of the bin. In this dust collector, the disk blows around like a piece of cardboard in a cyclone which sets off the alarm. At Oneida's suggestion, I glued the disk down with double-sided tape which fixed the lift-off problem. I had used a cardboard disk with my previous 2 HP dust collector with same size barrel and it had no problems with lift-off. Even with the cardboard in place, I see an occasional flash from the alarm light when there is dust in the bin. I think this is dust circulating in the bin high enough to set it off. Flashes change from occasional to persistent as the drum fills. I wonder if the air flow from this cyclone needs a larger diameter drum to slow the angular velocity. That is Oneida's problem. For now, I will need to calibrate my sensors on how to interpret the flash pattern.

    One thing to be aware of is that some of the things learned on earlier fixed speed blowers no longer apply to this variable speed dust collector. It has significantly higher flow and develops higher suction pressure than any conventional fixed speed blower using the same cyclone and bin. Conventional wisdom learned from experience may need to be updated.

    To test the system, I started on my next project, building the handrail and trimming the stairs to the upstairs bedroom. To prepare material for the newel post, I planed and ripped some 2x12 white oak for a laminated 6"x6" post. The sawdust filled the drum (well ¾ filled) on the first day. Dust collection is really strong. The layout of blast gates close together at a convenient height is one of the advantages of the through-the-floor design. I swapped from one machine to another planing, jointing, and ripping. The new arrangement is much easier than moving the flexible hose from machine to machine. And I am happy not to step over the flex hose. Electrical cords are neatly plugged in next to their machine and there are no cords across the aisles to obstruct carts or trip the gray-haired shop occupant.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Black Oak Ark.
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    225
    Well done , looks great.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Florida
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    1,406
    Looks great!

    What about painting the bottom of the bin with flat paint or chalk paint to prevent the reflections? May be cleaner than the cardboard taped to the bottom.

  10. #40
    Thanks, James and Greg. I am really pleased with how well it works.

    And Greg, painting the bottom of the barrel used to be the recommendation from Oneida. But, the new recommendation is the cardboard disk which Oneida supplied. My choice was dictated by the fact that I had double stick tape and did not have black spray paint. Things might change.

    The angular velocity in the barrel must be quite high. My first solution was to weight the cardboard down with two block of 2x4 which did nothing. I am still thinking about whether the high velocity in the barrel is good or bad for separation.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 04-30-2022 at 12:25 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
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    3,082
    Thomas:

    I also run the DC pipes through the floor of my workshop, and it is great. Mine was somewhat easier than yours, I'm sure, as it only has to go up 18" from the concrete floor through the raised access floor. The toughest part was likely cutting the holes in the cement/steel raised access tiles, but the installers did that for me.

    There is still some wrestling with Nordfab pipes, and those variable length pipe sections, but when done, it really is "the bees knees". I didn't know about Blastgate when I ordered my piping from Nordfab. Certainly very expensive, but again very high quality.
    - “It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.” – Albert Einstein
    - Welcome to Florida. Where the old folks visit their parents

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    Thomas:

    I also run the DC pipes through the floor of my workshop, and it is great. Mine was somewhat easier than yours, I'm sure, as it only has to go up 18" from the concrete floor through the raised access floor. The toughest part was likely cutting the holes in the cement/steel raised access tiles, but the installers did that for me.

    There is still some wrestling with Nordfab pipes, and those variable length pipe sections, but when done, it really is "the bees knees". I didn't know about Blastgate when I ordered my piping from Nordfab. Certainly very expensive, but again very high quality.
    Yes indeed. Your system and mine are quite similar. It has taken a long time and lot of effort but I am also glad I put the DC and most of the duct work below the floor.

    I ordered the DC and duct on October 6, 2021. I turned it on for the first time April 23, 2022. A lot of things interrupted shop time but the dust collection and electrical outlets in the floor are the only projects I worked on in that time. That is a huge chunk of time for a geezer.

  13. #43
    Nicely done!

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Jenson View Post
    Nicely done!
    Thank you. I think I like how the pipes and control post are clustered between the saw and planer.

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