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Thread: Yet Another Dust Collector Thread

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    60,588
    Did you consider asking Oneida if they will sell you a longer hunk of that wire so you can relocate the box as necessary for your shop?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #17
    The second task on my list today is to cut some holes in the floor for duct work. I cut one. I confess to having a catatonic paralysis when it comes to making the first cut on any project so this is a big deal. I also posted a question on this forum about this task. The method I chose closely follows the ideas and advice given. First, I decided to use a circular template and router guide bushing to make the hole straight and neat. I made the template big enough that I could kneel on it while cutting and I used double sided tape to keep it from slipping around. One end of the template is 6”, the other is 4”.
    4F3D792C-724A-4C97-B604-114C30D2F246.jpg
    This worked great. I made the template from 1/2” Blondewood plywood from Lowes. It has few voids so it is good for bushing guides. I added packing tape on the corners to help with getting the glue off.
    A8320443-84D1-4F48-B1FF-B6611132D0D7.jpg
    I marked the outline for positioning the template using a red carpenter’s pencil. I added a guideline inside the perimeter to aid in drilling out the waste.
    73C2B28D-5A73-4837-AE7D-A3EC4512BBAE.jpg
    I drilled just inside the anticipated router line and then cut the plug out with a jig saw with a very long blade.
    C3D8EFA0-070D-4AF9-A118-B3F4EBC5105E.jpg 467E4D46-8102-4042-B32B-B2E08DA8350B.jpg F4D1ECCF-8235-43CF-AA17-CE0C4D8765A8.jpg
    I trimmed the hole in several passes. I used a bit with 1/2” diameter with 1” cutting length first in a plunge router. I had to cut through oak with flooring nails so I wanted the cheapest bit. There were sparks. I finished the cut with a 1/2” by 2 1/2” bit in my hoss router. It is like an old friend. They don’t make them like they used to.
    B45FE66C-4136-42D5-8699-43E376EB699E.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #18
    The finished hole was neat and precise as I wanted. All the thinking paid off. I did have help. Only four more holes to go.
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    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Did you consider asking Oneida if they will sell you a longer hunk of that wire so you can relocate the box as necessary for your shop?
    I asked Oneida about moving the box. The service rep did not seem to know as much as what I learned when I opened the motor housing. So they were not much help. I will ask them if they can supply 12’ of cable.

    Let me add that everything about Oneida equipment is first rate. I have seen it inside and out. It is innovative, well-designed, and well-built. Their customer service does not draw from the same talent pool as their engineering and manufacturing.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 12-10-2021 at 8:37 PM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    Lancaster, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post

    Attachment 469645



    nothing special here any 3 wire cable will work. you can buy an extension cord 16 or 18 gauge, cut the ends off. or use t-stat wire. what ever meets your needs for looks. As long as the circuit is low voltage on less than 100va circuit just about anytrhing works.


    With the Portable, I was concerned about routing the 220 v, 30 amp power up to shop and back. With the Smart Gorilla, it will just be low voltage control. The bad news is that the receiver for the remote control is also in the motor housing. It is intimately tied into the motor controller inside the motor housing.
    Attachment 469646
    The receiver is the small box on the side of the motor controls. It is not movable, at least not by me. I wonder if I could help reception from the shop remote by splicing some wire onto the receiver’s antenna. I will wait to test that to see if it works as is. Sometimes antenna wire length is important.

    based on picture looks like 18-6 t-stat wire will allow you to relocate remote receiver where ever you want
    good luck
    Ron



    If you are with in 3hrs driving distance of 43130 I will come and walk you thru it or we can talk on phone anytime. (Not working right now as at home recovering from auto crash)
    Last edited by Ron Selzer; 12-11-2021 at 6:54 AM. Reason: add last sentence

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Ya know...anyone not familiar with what you are doing with your shop and having the DC downstairs is going to wonder why you're installing so many toilets around the shop floor...

    -----
    Relative to Oneida, I'm not surprised that a CSR wasn't all that familiar with the guts of the electronics. Tech support hopefully would know. I haven't really talked with them in many years at this point since it's been so long since I bought the first and second cyclone from them for the old shop. It will be interesting to see how that goes when I get a shop building up here and if they will entertain the same idea as last time and let me drive up to pick it up from the factory.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Selzer View Post
    good luck
    Ron



    If you are with in 3hrs driving distance of 43130 I will come and walk you thru it or we can talk on phone anytime. (Not working right now as at home recovering from auto crash)
    Wow Ron. Very generous offer. Very sorry to hear you are recovering from an accident.

    I am in 37766, La Follette, TN. You would be 6 hours away. I think I can figure this one out. I am slow but I usually get there.

    The connection block in the motor controls is first class equipment. The termination is a small plastic block with something like a tiny clothes pin connector. The only thing special about the wire they used is that is tinned copper which would make getting the wire into the small connector easier. I will look some more for the exact match but you are right. Any 18 AWG would work and I could tin the ends of the wires myself.

    Get better soon.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Ya know...anyone not familiar with what you are doing with your shop and having the DC downstairs is going to wonder why you're installing so many toilets around the shop floor...
    There are some who do know me who would suggest that it is merely a good start.


    -----
    Relative to Oneida, I'm not surprised that a CSR wasn't all that familiar with the guts of the electronics. Tech support hopefully would know. I haven't really talked with them in many years at this point since it's been so long since I bought the first and second cyclone from them for the old shop. It will be interesting to see how that goes when I get a shop building up here and if they will entertain the same idea as last time and let me drive up to pick it up from the factory.
    He was ignorant on a wide range of topics, for example, shipping which he should have known. His job was apparently as a gatekeeper to prevent questions from getting through to someone who might actually know. Good luck on your purchase. He did offer to let me pick mine up from their freight dock in Syracuse, NY so you should be good. The story is too long, boring, and unexplainable to repeat.

  9. #24
    There will be a pause in the dust collection installation work. Janicewhokeepsmehumble and I are in Atlanta for the next two weeks. I did not take any pictures of last week’s progress to document. The efforts were not especially photo worthy. I cut two more holes and put most of the pipe up in the plenum. The last pipe section to finish each of those runs is not in place. I ran into alignment difficulties and needed an extra pair of hands. I did assemble as much of the above-the-floor fittings as I could. The goal was check the parts for anything I needed to order to finish the job. I purposely did not order the custom parts in the initial order. I needed to put some of the pipe in place to take accurate measurements. I am getting a custom fitting with two lateral branches. I am also getting some adjustable sleeves that are shorter than standard. These custom parts are necessary to fit the pipe closer together than a typical overhead installation would require. Here is the drawing I sent ACS (Air Cleaning Specialists). This shows the custom lateral branch, custom sleeves, and standard elbows.

    24E4BFF7-999B-4EFC-9C15-FD712E8B1C52.jpg
    They sent this back in maybe 15 minutes.
    DFFC280F-DAC6-4CCC-AA2E-3586DE466A99.jpg

    Needless to say, my effort took much longer. They were ready put it into the manufacturing queue to build and ship in less than a week. I asked them to wait starting for week until I would be back in town when it arrived at the shop.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #25
    The break was longer than I expected. We left the lake a week before Christmas for a wedding, then went to Atlanta for Christmas with the kids. JWKMH picked up a case of thediseasethatcantbenamed despite being protectedbythesciencethatcantbenamed. Three days later, I was sick too. We finally recovered and got back to home base on Jan 4. I worked a bit more slowly than usual if that is possible since then.

    The result is that the ductwork is installed and I am happy. Electrical work remains but the part that I had to struggle with is done. We move on.

    Here is the shop level view. Dust collection that is subtle yet refined. No elephant trunks dangling from the ceiling just a cluster of galvanized Christmas trees in the midst of the machinery.
    C72C0823-1CC1-418C-9A18-BC1D8FD04230.jpg60DF6494-0DAD-43F9-9BE3-31B4551BF1D9.jpg
    There are two more penetrations but not so interesting as to warrant a picture.

    Beneath the calm shop level, a sea of tight tolerances and steely-eyed planning has been sailed to create the network of suction that is the woodworkers dream. Here is the plan from the parts order to provide context.
    77D31315-CF81-42FA-B1BE-9CECE3CA41B8.jpg
    Starting at the center of the tool cluster, here is the plenum level view of the custom double wye provided by Nordfab.
    923EA49F-FE24-4C79-BFB4-36EE69CBD7F3.jpg
    The two branches draw from the table saw cabinet/overarm guard and the planer/router table. They are too close together for separate lateral wyes so I ordered a custom double lateral wye. This presents a problem for accurately locating the two holes in the floor. I traced a cardboard template from the double wye to get a precise match for the spacing between the ports. The location of the first hole was just accurate measurement. I clamped the double branch component assembly in place and traced the duct profile from the glue lam beam and the floor joist onto a piece of scrap resting on the outlet to get the x-y position. I marked the underside of the floor with the center of one of the ducts of the double wyes. I drilled from beneath the floor to the shop level to transfer the center of the branch to the shop floor. I used my router template centered on the drilled hole to get the first branch. I used the cardboard template to locate the second branch. The holes turned out to be centered on the branches. Much sweating and planning was rewarded.

    The double wye also required custom length sleeves. The turn upward from the main trunk has to emerge at shop level with enough space for a 6x4x4 lateral wye, a blast gate, and the machine adapter connecting straight up to the overarm floating guard 4” pipe. The standard 11’ sleeves are too long so I ordered 9.75” sleeves. This allowed the sleeve clamp to be above the floor and gave room for a bit of adjustment of the sleeve up and down to align with the other fittings.

    Continuing around the plan, the miter saw branch is in the upper right corner of the plan. It is probably obvious to most that standard Nordfab duct components have certain minimum lengths of duct that can be accommodated. A standard sleeve is 11”. You cannot connect two fittings closer than that unless you order a custom short sleeve. Air Cleaning Specialists are very helpful and fast in specifying and ordering custom components. You might not realize that the sleeve length problem occurs at other discrete lengths. For example, you connect an 11” sleeve to a 60” pipe to get 71”, but if you cut the pipe to insert its into sleeve, it has to be inserted a minimum of 4”. Hence, a pipe length between 67” and 71” is not available without custom parts. You can get that length with two standards sleeves and two standard lengths of pipe, but it is cheaper to anticipate the problem and order custom parts. This point is relevant to the miter saw branch. I planned a 30 degree diagonal that crossed three floor joists on 12” spacing. For those who understand 30-60-90 triangles, one realizes that after subtracting lateral displacement of the 30 degree elbows, the pipe length needed is in the 67-71” range. In my case, I used the 71” pipe and sleeve and then offset the holes from the center of the joist spacing to get a fit. High school trig and ductwork engineering saved the day despite not anticipating the problem. Here are the pics of the miter saw branch.
    AA807B1A-1D11-46B2-8554-780784B04AF3.jpg
    1A50F8E2-0285-4C9F-9E78-3F8728EAA1CF.jpg
    Continuing around to the jointer/bandsaw side of the plan, this is the jointer penetration.
    C398D23F-8B12-48D1-A653-019FADA4C98E.jpg
    Here is the wye splitting flow between jointer and bandsaw. I do not seem to have a shot of the bandsaw penetration.
    08703EA8-16B8-4223-939C-617E912CDBB7.jpg
    Anyway, thanks for watching.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 01-14-2022 at 11:44 PM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Dakota
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    1,621
    Thats damn nice. I wish I was able to bring my dust collection up from the bottom. I did seriously consider it before pouring the slab but I decided I would just get it wrong.
    The Plane Anarchist

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh Betsch View Post
    Thats damn nice. I wish I was able to bring my dust collection up from the bottom. I did seriously consider it before pouring the slab but I decided I would just get it wrong.
    This is the problem with under concrete layouts. I worked in this shop using my old portable dust collector for a couple of months before finalizing the design. I changed a few things. I may still have it wrong a bit with this layout, but it will work 99% of the time. I can still move the tools if I need to work on an especially long piece by splicing in a length of flexible hose. The Quick Fit joints are easy to disconnect and reconnect. The router table and miter saw connections are planned to be a multi-use ports. I plan to roll tools like the dovetailing jig, Performax sander, and downdraft table to the connections as needed.

    The ductwork will be inaccessible in just a few weeks when the fire-rated Sheetrock is installed on the basement ceiling. Not as hard to change as under concrete but not likely to happen.

    The job today is to order infloor outlet boxes and covers. It will be really nice to have the floor clear of cords and flex hose. Soon, very soon.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 01-15-2022 at 9:24 AM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Tampa Bay, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh Betsch View Post
    Thats damn nice. I wish I was able to bring my dust collection up from the bottom. I did seriously consider it before pouring the slab but I decided I would just get it wrong.
    Yeah, it really is wonderful having the ducts running under the floor. I did it with raised access flooring, as I'm on the ground floor, but had 17' ceilings, so I could and did just lose 18" of not needed room height and now don't trip on ducts, and don't have hanging ducts which I love.

    But not an option for most workshops. Beautiful job, Thomas!
    - “It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.” – Albert Einstein
    - Welcome to Florida. Where the old folks visit their parents

  14. #29
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    That's a beautiful, clean install! Wonderful design and setup.

    'Hope you are all feeling better, too!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    276
    That looks great, the fun will begin soon!

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