Yet Another Dust Collector Thread

[Thomas Wilson]

I just ordered the ductwork and a bigger dust collector for my new shop. This step is huge for me. I struggled mightily with the “optimum” choices for dust collection. I complicated the issue by letting the builder dictate timetable of construction and design of a dropped ceiling in the basement and dust collector closet. I had no idea of the complications that would result from a 15 min decision. Today, I proposed a duct work design to a supplier of Nordfab that worked within the constraints of the building and ordered a top tier dust collector. This step breaks a log jam of construction dependencies that will allow completion of the fire resistant sheet rock of the ceiling of the basement, floor outlet wiring of the mid floor tool cluster, and a garage door in the basement. I will be off to the races with shop furniture and the handrail for the interior stairs. I am happy tonight.

[Jim Becker]

One step at a time...and that's a very nice big step! 'Looking forward to the details as you put things together.

[Thomas Wilson]

My duct work and dust collector came in a few weeks ago. I have been traveling so not much progress has been made. Today, I hung the collector on the wall bracket temporarily using some drywall screws and put in the ductwork into the basement closet. I am just checking dimensions. I can move the bracket to line up collector and pipe. Looks like everything will fit together.

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I made a simple cradle to hold pipe as I cut it. It works well.
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I use a Bosch jig saw with a very fine, metal-cutting blade to make cuts. It is easier than I expected.

[Ron Selzer]

I use a Bosch jig saw with a very fine, metal-cutting blade to make cuts. It is easier than I expected.

A half inch hole to start the cut then a powered metal shear. I use a Grizzly H5503 at home and a DeWalt at work. Broke the jaw on the Grizzly at home when cutting thru a seam with 3 layers, repaired it with a set of jaws from Harbor Freight.
Just finished up hooking up 14 6" drops at work all but the floor sweep were reduced down after blast gate to hook up to machines. Used Nordfab QF ducting, good stuff. 20 hp AAF dust collector, 17" trunk line.
Like your cradle setup, looks like it will make it easier.
Good luck
Ron

[Thomas Wilson]

A half inch hole to start the cut then a powered metal shear. I use a Grizzly H5503 at home and a DeWalt at work. Broke the jaw on the Grizzly at home when cutting thru a seam with 3 layers, repaired it with a set of jaws from Harbor Freight.
Just finished up hooking up 14 6" drops at work all but the floor sweep were reduced down after blast gate to hook up to machines. Used Nordfab QF ducting, good stuff. 20 hp AAF dust collector, 17" trunk line.
Like your cradle setup, looks like it will make it easier.
Good luck
Ron

17” main is huge. I am using 6” main with 6x4x4 branches above the floor to connect to machines. I work alone so only one machine will be connected at a time. I need to keep velocity up in the main.

[Ron Selzer]

wood shop in a new high school. was installed with 6" drops 7' Above Finished Floor. I took it from there

point I was trying to make was to look into a power shear instead of using the jig saw. All appear to be the same copied off of the original Kett design. Harbor freight has the cheapest version.
Different way to do what you are doing, yet it is how all the pros I have seen in the field do it. As they say any excuse to buy a new tool
You have a very nice system started now and appears to be a nice installation job so far. definitely will top quality when you are done.
Keep in mind it takes roughly 2 4" lines to equal 1 6". 2 x (3.1416x(2x2)) = 25.1328 , 3.1416x(3x3) = 28.2744
Good luck
Ron

[Thomas Wilson]

wood shop in a new high school. was installed with 6" drops 7' Above Finished Floor. I took it from there

point I was trying to make was to look into a power shear instead of using the jig saw. All appear to be the same copied off of the original Kett design. Harbor freight has the cheapest version.
Different way to do what you are doing, yet it is how all the pros I have seen in the field do it. As they say any excuse to buy a new tool
You have a very nice system started now and appears to be a nice installation job so far. definitely will top quality when you are done.
Keep in mind it takes roughly 2 4" lines to equal 1 6". 2 x (3.1416x(2x2)) = 25.1328 , 3.1416x(3x3) = 28.2744
Good luck
Ron

Thanks, Ron. From my vast experience of cutting exactly one pipe cut so far, the allure of a new tool is not quite enough yet. The jigsaw with a fine tooth metal cutting blade method worked really well. One important safety caution about the jigsaw, the upward cut stroke of the blade throws fine metal shavings toward your face. Goggles that fit closely to your face are necessary.

Your advice about maintaining flow area is well taken for conventional dust collectors that develop static pressure in the 10-12 inch of water range. The Oneida Smart Gorilla that I have is variable speed and develops 23 inches static pressure. It can draw 900 CFM through a 4” port. This volume of flow is good for both dust and chip collection. Of course two 4” ports draw even more but the point is that Oneida has heard Bill Pentz about dust collection versus chip collection. Pentz advocates 800 CFM for dust collection. The Smart Gorilla delivers that through 4” ports which is why I bought it. In contrast, Pentz’s designs implemented by ClearVue to achieve similar flow utilizes larger impellers, bigger ducts, and enlarged ports on machines. One could argue that that the “Smart” part of the Oneida design is that the VFD (variable frequency drive and the digital flow controls) is cheaper than larger ducts and ports. Long term reliability is still an unknown for the VFD but the Smart design has been out for a few years without a lot of issues reported.

One final point about higher static pressures is the potential for collapsing the pipe. Thin wall HVAC would definitely collapse. I am installing a new system so I chose heavy duty Nordfab Quick Fit. If you (general member of Sawmill Creek) have an existing system with lower rated duct, it might not be cost effective to replace it.

[Kevin Jenness]

One suggestion I would make is to hang the cyclone as high as possible on the wall. The longer the drop to the dust bin the more margin you have against clogging the filters in case of an accidental overfill of the bin.

[Ron Selzer]

Nordfab Quick Fit is nice pipe to work with, I used the power shears to cut it and don't have to worry about metal chips flying. Only problem with it was Grainger who we bought all the pipe and fittings off of would not quote any custom wyes. So ended up buying 6x6x6 then adding 6x4 reducers, then 3d printing 4x1 1/2, 4x2. 4x 2 1/2 reducers to get to needed hose size. Really like how easy it is to reconfigure as changes were made and will be made in the future.
Worked with vfd's last 30 yrs. or so and they have are smaller, way less expensive and newer ones seem to really last.
you definitely are installing a top-quality system
Ron

[Thomas Wilson]

Nordfab Quick Fit is nice pipe to work with, I used the power shears to cut it and don't have to worry about metal chips flying. Only problem with it was Grainger who we bought all the pipe and fittings off of would not quote any custom wyes. So ended up buying 6x6x6 then adding 6x4 reducers, then 3d printing 4x1 1/2, 4x2. 4x 2 1/2 reducers to get to needed hose size. Really like how easy it is to reconfigure as changes were made and will be made in the future.
Worked with vfd's last 30 yrs. or so and they have are smaller, way less expensive and newer ones seem to really last.
you definitely are installing a top-quality system
Ron

Ron, you are all set now. But for others setting up a new system, Nordfab does make custom components for a reasonable price if you go through a retailer who can make the measured drawings needed. I am certain you can get 2 1/2” laterals. Not sure about 2” or 1 1/2”. There is a lower limit to the diameter that can be formed. I am getting several custom Nordfab parts through Air Cleaning Specialists, www.ductingsystems.com. More on that when they arrive.

VFD’s are a new thing for dust collectors. Only, Oneida and Harvey are offering them so far that I know. Most manufacturers will surely follow. One technical development to follow is the speed control. Oneida has a controller that increases/decreases speed to control flow to a set point (This is what they actually meant by “Smart” dust collector.). Harvey has manual speed control. The problem with the Smart design is that not all tools need 900 CFM. I will be connecting up a router table with dust box that would be much happier loafing along at a couple hundred CFM rather than 900. I plan to crack open an extra blast gate to throttle the flow to the router down. A manual dial might be better or at least quieter.

Dust collection turns out to be a fascinating engineering problem.

[Jim Becker]

I went with the Blastgate Company equivalent of Nordfab and love it. The few cuts I had to make in the temporary shop I did with a...hacksaw...but would use my jigsaw with appropriate blade or a shear if I were going to be doing a larger shop. And both companies provide for custom fabrication if it's needed. I only used that for having machine adapters, um...adapted...to the varying size of machine ports. LOL They have a "stretchy machine" that can adjust the ID or OD as needed. But they can also make up special things where there are special needs.

[Thomas Wilson]

One suggestion I would make is to hang the cyclone as high as possible on the wall. The longer the drop to the dust bin the more margin you have against clogging the filters in case of an accidental overfill of the bin.

Thanks Kevin. Good point. The collector is in a closet in the basement.

In this case the alignment is dictated by the piping constraints to get the pipe up and out of the closet. Believe me, I have considered all possible options. This height for the elbow coming down is the best and only way to fit everything into the closet. A straight run of pipe going across from the elbow into the cyclone is also recommended for good flow distribution to the cyclone. I have about 18 inches of 7” duct going in which is a bit short.

For the overflow problem, I am going to mount the alarm light for the bin sensor in the shop and hope that I watch it. It will be right next to the planer. I had good results with the Dust Sentry sensor in my old dust collector once I cut a circle of cardboard from a shipping box for the bottom of the bin. That really works to eliminate false positives from the level detector. I was amused to see that in the new dust collector, Oneida scored a circular piece of cardboard in the packing material for the bin. It has prominent printing, “Do Not Discard. Put in bottom of dust bin.” We all live and learn.