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Thread: Workshop/garage design ideas

  1. #31
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    Rent a lift for the, um...lifting. No reason to do that kind of thing manually these days.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #32
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    I figure it's good exercise to lift whatever I can lift, like sheets of plywood, but I wouldn't be able to lift trusses that size. I also use a push reel lawn mower for the same reason, and bicycle when convenient instead of driving.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    John's post eludes to an important thing to consider. While Trusses can cost what they do, there is great labor savings over stick building a deck and roof structure. That's one of the major reasons that builders opt for them as much as they do other than where unique situations dictate stick-built. That's less of a factor if you are building yourself, but even then, the time savings and reduced physical effort can be meaningful. It's not just about material cost, in other words.
    Yes. Commercial builders' most valuable commodity is always time. We're always working against the clock from some angle. I've never done a roof where I had the luxury of open ended schedule. The weather, job schedules, machine use timelines, etc always dictate that the roof gets done fast. We typically set all trusses and outlooks, and sheeting with roof underlayment in a day or two. Once the weather stays out of the building and it isn't susceptible to wind damage, then we can slow up a bit.

  4. #34
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    I can see how time would be important in a commercial context, for sure. I have built several outbuildings during my time here at the farm and saving money has always been more important than saving time, within reason. I did rent a trackhoe to dig about 100 feet of foundation trench 3-4 feet deep. It cost $200 plus fuel for a day, and saved me over a week of hand digging. I tried digging by hand first and only got 10 linear feet in a day, so I gave up. In one spot I found a rock at the bottom of the trench that was fairly rectangular and about 2x5 feet and 10 inches thick. It took me an hour to get that out of the hole with the trackhoe, and I am sure I would never have gotten it out by hand. I liked running the trackhoe, it took about an hour to get comfortable with the controls but then it was great to be able to do so much so effortlessly.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachary Hoyt View Post
    I liked running the trackhoe, it took about an hour to get comfortable with the controls but then it was great to be able to do so much so effortlessly.
    I bought one a couple of years ago. I spent several days before I felt efficient at operating it. Simple digging was easy right off the bat, but coordinating the controls to work efficiently took some time. I've wondered how people without experience handled renting one. It took me half a day just to study the manuals, to know how to work, about the maintenance, and what to never, ever do.

    I use mine almost daily, clearing brush, leveling and reshaping, building roads on the farm, lifting logs off the ground for chainsawing, and taking out even fairly large trees. Loaded a bandsaw with it into my truck to take to a woodworking demo yesterday. The reach and power of even a relatively small excavator is amazing. I saved up for 10 years for this one but I wish I could have been using it those 10 years.

    Used it last week to pit-burn a large quantity of brush and dead trees when cleaning up a river lot. I know some other people with property - anyone interested in retiring to TN and living on the river? For some reason people seem to be moving to TN from all over the country, the frozen north, the burning west. Can't figure it out...

  6. #36
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    I got the 5 minute tutorial from the rental company driver, and then I just had to feel my way into it. At first I was very slow and made a lot of false moves, but after an hour or so I didn't have to think each control movement out as I was digging, I just thought what I wanted the arm to do and did it without thinking, which was much easier. I rented one again 7 years later to dig 20 holes for concrete piers for another building and it took about the same time for the ease of movement to come back. I never did much besides digging with the ones I rented, though. That's great to have one to use all the time, I'm sure it must be indispensable by now.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachary Hoyt View Post
    I got the 5 minute tutorial from the rental company driver, and then I just had to feel my way into it. At first I was very slow and made a lot of false moves, but after an hour or so I didn't have to think each control movement out as I was digging, I just thought what I wanted the arm to do and did it without thinking, which was much easier. I rented one again 7 years later to dig 20 holes for concrete piers for another building and it took about the same time for the ease of movement to come back. I never did much besides digging with the ones I rented, though. That's great to have one to use all the time, I'm sure it must be indispensable by now.
    With 27 acres there is ALWAYS some task, even if it's just moving dead trees fallen across a road or trail.

    I tell people it's a woodturning machine. I can easily lift a 2000-3000 lb log and hold it at waist height to chainsaw pieces to make turning blanks. Also, nothing better for unloading logs from a trailer and setting them gently on the sawmill.

    trackhoe_20190916_190256.jpg

    One of the first "jobs" I used it for on the farm was to dig a 650' trench to run underground power in conduit to a new building site. Made it so quick, far better than a renting a ditch machine then digging out spill by hand.

    trackhoe_trench2.jpg

    My favorite thing, though, is to put young people behind the controls and have give them the experience (in a safe place) of driving, digging, pushing some dirt, and moving a big rock or two. You should see the big grins!

    trackhoe_20191019_184056.jpg trackhoe_20191019_182759.jpg

    The problem I always had with renting equipment was the stress of trying to get as much done as possible in the time allowed. With machines there all the time (excavator plus skidsteer, tractor) life is so much more relaxing - I can work as much are as little as I want and on my own schedule! Somethings are so much fun I find myself switching on the lights to work (play) after dark. And since I'm elderly and feeble I got the version with the cab with heat and air. Take that, yellowjacket and hornet nests!

    JKJ

  8. #38
    If you are planning to construct this shop so it can be used by a future owner as a garage, then it will probably have a garage door. When you have the structural engineer design the first floor ceiling for carrying the expected second floor loads, have him also design for attaching a steel beam to the first floor ceiling beyond the garage door over one of the bays to be used as a gantry crane. This way you can back a pickup or trailer into the bay and lift off a machine with ease. You can also pick up and place a heavy piece of equipment on a table for maintenance or put it on a rolling base, etc. This would be much handier than having a rolling gantry crane. The capacity can be anything within reason but make it a least a ton. While I started out with typical cabinet saws (500-600#), I was gradually seduced by much heavier, 3 phase industrial equipment. My current heaviest machine is a Crescent P24 planer (at ~ 4,000# - it was an adventure getting it up onto 6x6s so it could be moved with a pallet jack).

  9. #39
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    JKJ, that's great to be able to use things whenever you want to like that. We have a couple of older tractors here, one with a loader, but I don't need to be able to dig often enough to make it pay to keep any kind of excavating equipment. I've always been a cheapskate on a budget.

    Brian Backner, thanks for the idea. It hadn't occurred to me. I can see the logic of putting in a header for the potential future garage doors as suggested above, since I imagine that the majority of people would want to have them, but to design for an I beam and crane seems less clear to me, as I imagine that only a smaller number of people would be interested in such a use and it would cost a lot more than just putting headers in a wall frame would.

  10. #40
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    Yea, for "big power tools" that might have some reasonable frequency of use, owning is a nice thing. I feel that way about my "big orange power tool" (small Kubota tractor with a loader and backhoe)...it's done a huge amount of work over the past 18 years at our previous property. I'm going to move it here to the new place for a while to assist with my eventual shop build, but may not keep it long term because here, there's likely going to be very little work for it to do otherwise with only a half acre.

    Zachary, were I you, I'd definitely put in the headers for future garage door(s) as it will be a helpful selling point when it's time to move on. Frame it up like a garage first and then "wall in" the doors separately so it would be easy to remove in the future when/if needed/desired. The only reason I wouldn't do this is if it would trigger something with the local jurisdiction that would force a sloped floor because of "garage". I know that when I put up my building, it's going to be permitted as a "residential accessory building" with no reference to "garage". It likely will not have any garage type doors, either, although a small one might be practical if I can weather seal it to my own satisfaction.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #41
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    That's a good point about the sloped floor, I'll have to ask. Here we have a 1963 Massey-Ferguson 35 with a loader that belongs to the farm and is now mostly used for loading logs, and I bought and repaired a 1955 Farmall 300 that does the log skidding and haying and such. When I leave here I will probably sell the Farmall as it is more tractor than there is a use (or space) for on a 1/4 acre lot. In the long run I hope to build a house on 1 to 5 or so acres, and then I might need or want something for a while, but it would probably be more practical to rent or buy whatever machine may be needed when the time comes, since I don't know what kind of land I may be able to buy or what it will need to have done.

  12. #42
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    Yes, rather than doing back-breaking work lifting things, rent something for that task and put your physical efforts into the actual building. I can assure you that when my building goes up and things transition from the contractor doing their thing to me doing the interior, I'll be leveraging some form of lift for both safety and to keep from killing myself!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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