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Thread: Workshop/garage design ideas

  1. #1
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    Workshop/garage design ideas

    I am going to need to build a workshop in the yard of the house I recently bought, probably next spring. My income is solely derived from stuff I make in a workshop, and the house is under 1000 square feet so I can't put it in there. My plan is to build a workshop that can be easily converted into a garage by the future owner of the house if they wish. I anticipate living in this house for 1-5 years or so and eventually building a house and workshop on a larger lot with more room for gardening and selling this house.

    I've been thinking of something in the two car garage size range with an upstairs that I would use for 'clean' jobs, packing shipments, and storage. The town allows monolithic slabs, and being in the Adirondacks I imagine the frost line is pretty deep, maybe 4 feet. If I had a monolithic slab poured 20x24 would it be feasible to use 2x12x20 on 16" centers to support the upstairs floor, or is that too big of a span for joists? Is there another kind of floor support beam I could use without a center post that would be better?

    Another alternative is to make something like 24x24 with attic trusses and a monolithic slab. I have never built with trusses and am not fond of them because of the way they chop up the space under the roof and make it much less useful, and also they are expensive, but the cheaper foundation might offset the truss cost.

    A third alternative I have thought of is to have a real foundation with a footer, wall and floating slab. If this was 24x24 I could put a footer in the center for a support post, add a beam down the center and use 12' 2x10 or 2x12 for joists. I don't know how much of a disadvantage it would be in a garage to have a center post instead of a clear span.

    If anyone has any experiences with these methods or suggestions about what I should build I will be very grateful for advice. I have built a number of outbuildings here on the farm where I currently live, but the big two have interior posts to support the upper floor. The largest one I built was 6 years ago, and is 28x48 with a tall loft, so the scale of this building is not daunting to me, but I have never built or even lived with a garage so I am doubtful as to the parameters for them. Thank you very much for taking time to read this.

  2. #2
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    Instead of solid lumber joists, look into manufactured joists, aka I-joists. They look a bit like I-beams, but they're built from plywood and OSB. They can be found in long lengths, and in tall heights, so they can make your 24x24 upper floor without support posts.

  3. #3
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    I was going to say the same thing as Jamie...I-joints. They would probably be 12"-ers but it has to be properly engineered. The shop at my old property used them for this purpose and they were rock-solid. And straight.

    One thing to know about putting a "garage" on the property is that you may be required to slope the floor which is a bit of a pain for a workshop situation...I just lived with that for over 20 years and it sometimes complicated things.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
    What Jamie said. You need to size the floor structure for the expected load, but 20' 2x12's won't support a lot. I built my original 24'x36' shop with 2x12's 16" o.c. because I had the material left over from building my house (sawn from our woodlot), but they rest on a 6x12 beam with two posts down the center of the first floor. The second floor carries a s--t-ton of weight but the posts below are a definite impediment to workflow and if I were starting from scratch I would design them out.

    For my foundation I did a monolithic slab with thickened edges, but I built it on top of a 4' deep trench filled with compacted stone and drainage to daylight as the soil here has a lot of clay. Both my house and shop were built with this foundation and have endured 35 years with no problems.

  5. #5
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    Structural engineer is well worth the money. Will actually save you money as you will build what meets your needs and not overbuild or underbuild and then beef it up.
    You have time to explore options and figure out maximum bang for your dollar now and then build in spring.

    I prefer floor truss made from 2x4 material, you can tuck all of your electrical, dust collection, plumbing etc. in the joists as long as you think it out and plan ahead
    Garage now is 20x20. last garage was 26x34(fit the place it was). 20x20 is tight. neither one has any posts and the 26x32 had a steel beam installed to carry second floor.
    Basement has two posts that could have been one placed in line with stairway and furnace out of the road, instead of being out in middle of two different spaces IF a larger steel beam was used

    Highly recommend foam insulation under the concrete floor and around the outside.
    Might consider not calling it a garage unless zoning forces you to.

    Good luck
    Ron

  6. #6
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    Thank you all very much for your help. The idea of I joists is very interesting, and the floor trusses look even handier but maybe also harder to find up here. I don't think there is any need to call it a garage when I build it, but my goal is to make it something that could be used as a garage by a future owner who I imagine probably wouldn't want a workshop in the yard. I had thought a little about doing a pier foundation and wood first floor since that would be cheaper to build, but it would not be as versatile for the next owner.

    How should I go about looking for a structural engineer? Is it important to find one who is more or less in the area I'm moving to or is that not important? I've never worked with one before. I appreciate all the advice.

  7. #7
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    It's easy to get an engineered solution, go to the lumber yard and ask them about a truss package. They will be custom designed to your specs by a structural engineer, included in the price. Your town will likely require that the roof have an engineer stamp anyhow, ordering trusses gets there. You can build a 24' span floor with TJI, but you will find that trusses are cheaper. With 24' span on TJI I would be going for at least L/360 with 40 PSF live load and 20 PSF dead load. That means 14" series 360 Weyerhauser on 16" centers. $6.23/ft here. If you do that, you also need a roof that doesn't encroach, so more TJI which are a slow way to build roofs. And most importantly that approach would also require an engineered ridge beam. Just use trusses, you won't regret the weeks saved and the 1/4 price.

  8. #8
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    Thanks, that sounds like good advice. I've never used trusses but I'm not opposed to them, and I'll call the lumberyard and see what I can find out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachary Hoyt View Post
    ...
    How should I go about looking for a structural engineer? Is it important to find one who is more or less in the area I'm moving to or is that not important? I've never worked with one before. I appreciate all the advice.
    I asked an architect friend to recommend a local structural engineer and he sent me to the one he uses. The guy worked over the phone for my simple job and the cost was far more reasonable than I expected.

    You can get trusses with open attic space in the center and truss lumber on the outer edges and above. A builder friend put those in his own house. He built cabinets into the angled spaces on the outside. Made for an excellent upstairs room. The room is small than the full width of the floor due to the sloped roof. If you want a full floor, go with the full engineered solution which will include enough strength in the 1st floor walls. When I designed a shop like this, I used concrete block walls but properly designed wood stud walls will work as well. My current shop uses 6x6 post-and-beam construction with 2x6 studs. Great for insulation, especially if part of this building will be a living space at some point.

    If you are using the upper room for working and possibly wood storage, be certain to communicate the estimated loads to the structural engineer (or to the truss company who will have their own structural engineering design software.)

    If building as a garage use well insulated garage doors.. I asked for insulated doors and got a quote but when the company was out of those they substituted industrial insulated doors. These were not only heavier duty, thicker steel, and better insulation but the cost was lower.

    BTW, if planning for a 2-car garage consider making it wide enough for 6-10' on either side of the garage bays and long enough for workspace, storage, or freezer in addition to the longest car/truck that might be parked there. The garage attached to my house has these things plus one bay is about 6' longer than the other, using space not needed by the stairs to the upper level. Very handy when I wanted to park my tractor there with an implement attached.

    Planning on moving in 1-5 years? Yikes, better get cracking!!. Took me three years just to build my shop, but that was working by myself including everything from site prep to electrical wiring. I'm a firm believer in underground wiring. Run extra conduit just in case, empty except for a pull rope inside. I added a third conduit on the other side of the trench for an ethernet cable.

  10. #10
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    John's comment about upper floor loading is very, very important as it impacts the design of the trusses and cost.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
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    Thank you for the detailed advice. I don't anticipate that I will want to store more than 3-400 board feet at a time, and often less. The woods I work with are mainly cherry, curly red maple, walnut and African mahogany, so I don't anticipate even as much as a ton of total lumber up there, and it will be spread out by species. I will also have a couple of work tables and such up there, but the loading should not be any more than if it was being used for living space.

    This building is to be a temporary shop for the 1-5 years I will be planning to live there, so it doesn't have to be ideal in all respects. I am planning to hire the concrete work out, as I am not good at that, and I should be able to have the rest of it ready to use within a month or so of work, I think. I may also have to hire an electrician to install a sub panel and wiring, I haven't asked the CEO about that yet.

    I won't want garage doors, but I'll plan to make it easy to add them later if a future owner wants them. I build musical instruments and my tools are not huge, so everything I use or produce can easily go in and out a 36" door.

  12. #12
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    ...a ton of lumber up there....
    I think of that every time I take my pet elephant upstairs.

    Planning for future garage doors would be kind and might be a good selling point in the future. I recently took out two 9' garage doors and replaced them with one 16' door. We had to construct a header appropriate for the load-bearing wall on the second story. Would have been a lot easier if that was added when constructed. Also, I'd be careful to route any electrical cables up and around the potential garage door space. If any outlets were needed on that wall feed them straight down from boxes up next to the ceiling. This would allow them to be easily removed if someone put in a garage door a some point.

    Also, consider the placement of the man door if the building were ever turned into a garage, and an emergency exit door, perhaps near the opposite corner.

    If the ceiling is enclosed, a ceiling outlet or two for a future garage door opener would be a nice addition, along with low-voltage control wires run above the ceiling. When I bought this house there was a circle drawn on the sheet rock at the entrance door with the label "garage door opener wires behind this spot."

    If not planning a garage door, consider adding a double door. You can still use it as a man door but open it wider just when needed. You may not need it for a guitar or cello but a wide door might be a good selling point for a future owner. I put three external insulated steel double doors on my shop, each opening to 5' (and two more inside). This makes it a lot easier to get equipment and things in and out. (and to open wide when the weather is nice!)

    One last thing which has made going to my shop MUCH nicer. I put good Schlage keypad locks on external doors. I carry no keys and can always get into the shop. These do have keys just in case but one 9v battery lasts for years. I use the deadbolt type that require manually turning the deadbolt when unlocking. I know someone who has one which retracts the deadbolt electrically but the battery doesn't last as long. For all my doors I use levers instead of knobs so I can open the door with my elbow when my hands are full.

    JKJ

  13. #13
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    Thank you, those are all great ideas. I will need to figure out the potential future door location and plan accordingly, but I am not planning any electrical on that wall. My plan was to have the person door on the end away from the road, so it shouldn't interfere. I'll have to do some measuring and thinking once I can actually get onto the property to make it all work out. I had been wondering about a 16' door versus two 9' doors and wondering which a potential imaginary person might be likely to prefer, but without much success.

    I think I will likely leave the ceiling open, but am not sure yet. If I do enclose it the opener ideas will be very helpful. I am a big believer in levers instead of knobs too, we have them on all the outside doors on the converted barn I've been living in for the last 20 years. Aside from being able to open the doors easily we have concrete floors in the first floor and can roll a wheelbarrow right in through the living room when we need to bring in a lot of garlic to process or anything like that. I've not lived in a place where I had to lock doors much, but I will start locking things up there since I will not be there all the time like I am here. I'll have to look for those keypad locks, they sound very handy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I think of that every time I take my pet elephant upstairs.
    I was thinking that that was a pretty minimal load, in some ways. I built a 20x28 sawmill building and have had as much as 2,000 board feet of wet hardwood lumber in that loft at a time, which must have weighed 5 or 6 tons at a guess, or maybe more. I cut all the lumber for the outbuildings here so they're all rough cut full dimensional sizes. That building has 2x6 studs on 16" centers with 2x10 joists nailed to them at the appropriate height and a pair of house trailer I beams down the center under the oerlapping joists with an 8x8 center post.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 10-04-2021 at 9:17 AM. Reason: fixed quote tagging

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachary Hoyt View Post
    ... I'll have to look for those keypad locks, they sound very handy.

    I've bought them from Home Depot and Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NJJ1MQ
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007PNP2I

    Have two in the shop and four in the house.

    Schlage is a good company too. I had one go bad after about a year and they sent me a free replacement, no return needed.


    I also have one of these on the inside door of my sunroom and I DON'T like it. It will still open to exit even if unlocked so if I forget to turn the lever and go out I have to key in the code to get back in. It's also not a deadbolt. I use strong deadbolts on all exterior doors.
    https://www.amazon.com/Schlage-FE595-CAM-626-ACC

    Perhaps I'm paranoid - I live in the middle of 27 acre farm with dogs outside so I could probably leave the doors unlocked all the time but I don't at night. Hate to have to waste a perfectly good 9mm cartridge.

    JKJ

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