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Thread: Dust Collector recommendations

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Rutman View Post
    However, if I’m going to do get a DC I want a really good one.
    Michael, there are fans of both Oneida and Clear Vue. I value the Clear Vue design because of its tall cone that does a very effective job of separating the fine dust out of the air flow and dropping it into the collection barrel, not the filters. The filters on a Clear Vue cyclone will stay very clean and rarely need any attention provided you keep your dust barrel emptied when you should and you don't have any air leaks there. This additionally means that I'm not dependent on filters to pull the fine dust out of the air being returned into the shop. The cyclone has done that work before the air ever gets to the filters.

    Until you go to multiple thousands of dollars for a full on commercial cyclone, there are no better alternatives to consider, imo. These are your best alternatives for the small woodworking shop.

  2. #17
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    Hey Michael. You have a lot of great stuff to work with here in this thread. Like you, I am in the research phase. Unlike you, I am limited to a single breaker 120vac/ 20 amps to have running the DC separate from the breaker my jointer or planer will be running on.

    I am still data mining here, reading _all_ the dust collector threads going back in time, I think I am back to page 12. It seems to me, so far, a +/- 3 horsepower system on a 220 vac circuit should be able to be fixed, with fixed drops at the tools you mentioned in post one, collect chips ahead of the fan in come kind of cyclone and filter the indoor exhaust so you aren't trying to air condition your back yard.

    Bill Pentz' website is good. I disagree with him that venting outdoors is a good idea for even a casual user in a mild climate - but I have a bunch of hand tools that I don't want rusting from condensed humidity coming in on makeup air if I exhaust outdoors - and I am in a much less humid environment than you. I probaby have a thousand bucks tied up in chisels and I shudder to think how many hours I have spent restoring a pretty comprehensive set of Stanley Bailey handplanes.

    At your budget, you are going to want some kind of particle separator between your wood working machines and the blades on the fan that runs your dust collector. At your budget you can skip right over DIY Thien baffles and go looking at cyclones. Taller is better. The taller your cyclone, the more and finer dust goes to your collection drum rather than to the exhaust filter. I got nothing on debating the various makes of cyclone. I built one for my shop vac out of two five gallon buckets with some plumbing fittings and I am a believer in cyclones to reduce filter cleaning, but I got jack doodle for band A vs brand X.

    Collection drum. Are you thinking about a floor standing flat bed sander? I was in one shop, the guy in all fairness does a lot of flat work; but he had a 27 gallon drum under a cyclone taller than my wife. Because he does a lot of flat work and has a floor standing sander, the dust in his collection drum is heavy. Sanding dust packs tighter than planer chips. So even though he has room for a 55 gallon bbl under his cyclone, he is using 27 gallon bbls because those are heavy enough when he is running the sander a lot.

    What are you going to use for your collection drum? What can you get cheaply and plentifully? 55 gallon drums are a global commodity. Up here in March they are 50-75 bucks each. In September they are free, take all you want. 27s are hard to come by, but available. You want something stiff enough to not collapse when you turn that bloody great fan on. If I need to, I will buy the 27s to fit a taller cyclone when I get to that bridge, but I don't know your ceiling height. Somebody here actually cut some drywall out of their shop ceiling so they could get the motor for their DC system up in between the floor joists of the floor above and fit a taller cyclone. Not a thing with portables, but possibly an option for you depending on what is upstairs from your shop. I am planning to get three identical drums when I pull the trigger, two outdoors with factory lids either empty or full, and one under the modified lid under the cyclone. Interchangeable.

    I am not going to suggest a pipe size for you, though I suspect most folks at this size DC and shop will suggest 5 or 6 inch. You do want to keep your flex hose runs as short as possible. Two 45 degree elbows in your hard pipe is better than one 90 elbow, just like a wood stove chimney. Or an exhaust system on a hot rod.

    I _think_ a 3hp system should be enough to keep a future radial arm saw of yours with significant dust hood from stinking up the joint when you run it indoors, and will easily support a floor level sweep chips into doohickey. Do not skimp on your blast gates. I am just running into those in my data mining and am not going to name any names. I have no idea what I will do for blast gates when I have a stationary 220vac DC system with drops, but I will spend what I have to spend to be happy with them. You might consider a dust sucking hood for sanding at your lathe, even if you sweep the lathe chips to the floor pickup with a broom.

    Also, budget and space allowing, consider a DIY air filter, a cube of furnace filters with a fan inside. It looks to me so far, limited as I am to a single 110vac/ 20 amp circuit, I will probably have to wear a KN95 mask, run a chip collector while the jointer etc is operating, and then run a shop wide air purifier when I turn the DC off. 110/20 is 2.3-2.5 hp tops, but I really don't want to be blowing that breaker regularly, so functionally 2hp. With just one more HP (only 50% more power) I should be able to collect chips and filter effectively with indoor exhaust with one motor spinning.

    Also consider an air quality meter, current thread about those. If you are dropping five grand, a couple hundred to prove the system acutally works is cheap.

    If you are putting in a sub panel for your addition I don't see a compelling reason to put in a 220vac circuit for the DC that will support more than 5 horsepower.

  3. #18
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    Both Oneida and ClearVue offer very good dust collection systems and both companies are dedicated to that, too. From there, it's a matter of preference around features and materials. I'm in the Oneida camp because I started there all the way back in 2000 when they were "the" dedicated dust collection system and about the only one who provided actual fan curves. The original one I bought is still running in a friend's shop. The replacement for that, which I actually picked up from the factory in Syracuse, served me very well in my old shop and is currently running in a small commercial operation that does van conversions. I have a used SDD in my temporary shop and when I get a building up, it's very likely that another Oneida system will get the nod, although the Harvey is 'very interesting" in some respects. Meanwhile, Clearview has a great lineup of systems that many folks find attractive and cost effective that leverage non-metal construction. For heavier needs, they do have the all metal model at the top of their range.

    IMHO, you can't go wrong with either brand. Of course, the duct work will be a key factor, too, so rather than considering that separately, make your focus on the entire system.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #19
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    As one who has been through the "move it around" experience, I can tell you that in anything but a spacious shop, the moving thing will be a royal pain. Some don't mind dealing with that, I did. If I was going to do a quick cut/sand/joint etc, dust collection just didn't get used. I now have a 5HP Oneida in a sound attenuating room adjacent to the shop and the whole system is powerful, quiet, and just plain wonderful.

    I also highly recommend that you get an air quality meter so you can actually see what you're breathing. This one can be had for less than $50:
    https://www.banggood.com/PM1_0-PM2_5...r_warehouse=CN
    If you get a USB battery to power it, then it's completely portable & can easily be moved around the shop to where ever you are working.

  5. #20
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    Apr 2013
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    Here's my 2 cents . A total of 460 sq. ft. is pretty small , given it is two rooms . If you are in that shop long term , I think 5 HP Clear Vue / Onieda is over kill . How about the 3HP V- system from Onieda , or something similar . You can get 700 / 800 cfm at the tools if the shop is small and laid out well .

  6. #21
    My thinking is 5HP is an awful big blower for that size shop and what you've got collect. I highly recommend talking to the companies about your set up and the options. IMO you should look into smaller cyclones like Laguna and Jet, etc.

    Other things to consider: Over arm dust collection on the table saw is a big issue. The stock guard/collector on my SawStop does an excellent job when hooked to my dust extractor. But, I despise blade guards, and its another thing to turn on/off. So an over arm retractable DC hood is the best way to go, for me anyway. But they need some substantial CFM's.

    I also recommend an air filtration unit, regardless.

    The other issue is small tool collection - sanders, biscuit joiners, can really contaminate the air. Routers are the worst and I haven't seen any with good DC on something like a rabbet or edge profile bit.

    You can go with a smaller cyclone and collect small machines locally. My main DC is not big enough, so I use a shop vac with an auto switch on my 12" bandsaw and disk/belt sander combo. I use a dedicated 1HP blower to collect my miter saw and router table.

    If I had the CV, I would tie those into the system.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by james manutes View Post
    Here's my 2 cents . A total of 460 sq. ft. is pretty small , given it is two rooms . If you are in that shop long term , I think 5 HP Clear Vue / Onieda is over kill . How about the 3HP V- system from Onieda , or something similar . You can get 700 / 800 cfm at the tools if the shop is small and laid out well .
    I agree with this. The reason I went with 5HP is because of the extra duct length & elbows required to get to the other room. But then you can never have too many clamps or too much airflow.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by james manutes View Post
    Here's my 2 cents . A total of 460 sq. ft. is pretty small , given it is two rooms . If you are in that shop long term , I think 5 HP Clear Vue / Onieda is over kill . How about the 3HP V- system from Onieda , or something similar . You can get 700 / 800 cfm at the tools if the shop is small and laid out well .

    I agree with this from direct, current personal experience...my temporary shop is 21x21, so it's in the same square foot range. I was originally going to do a mobile solution, but once the tools were in place...nope. It got mounted on the wall with a few drops from the ceiling that were strategically placed for convenience. I share a hose with more than one tool in some cases, but the DC is up and out of the way. Only the barrel under the small cyclone takes up any floor space.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    My thinking is 5HP is an awful big blower for that size shop and what you've got collect. ...
    My opinion is different. My 5hp has a 15" "blower" impeller. To me it is perfect - when sanding spindles I've watched dust come off the lathe and travel about 2' horizontally to be sucked up by the intake nozzle.

    I split one drop into three 4" hoses to the bandsaw, one to the bottom cabinet, one to a box around the lower guides, and one on a flex tube I hold in place with a magnet on the top of the table as needed. I get almost zero dust inside and outside the bandsaw.

    I run a 4" hose to the stock collection nozzle of a performax 22-44 sander and my Dylos particle counter about 6' away barely budges. I can put a 40' 2.5" hose on one blast gate and vacuum the floors and machines all over the shop.

    I've never heard of too much suctions and too much air movement being a bad thing. The cyclone itself doesn't take up any more space than many DCs with less power. One downside is the larger wire to feed the 5hp motor but I wired all of it myself before the walls were covered and the difference was insignificant.

    I personally would rather have way more suction and air movement than needed. I think the decision boils down to cost vs benefit. You only pay once but benefit for life. I think the 5hp cyclone benefits my health and my life.

    BTW, there is a huge benefit of mounting a cyclone (and air compressor) in a sound insulated closet. Without the closet you have annoyance at minimum and at worse can risk hearing damage without protection. With the closet we can converse normally and even hear a whisper just outside the closet.

    JKJ

  10. #25
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    Dec 2020
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    Dayton OH
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    I do want that attachment that lets you shovel wood shavings into a slot on the floor to get sucked up.
    Unless you have some type of separator in front of the blower wheel, rarely I'm told fires have ignited in the dust bin from a nail or screw hitting the metal blower and creating a spark. It could potentially smolder for days and then burn your shop down. Something to consider.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 09-22-2021 at 5:31 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tagging

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hayes View Post
    Unless you have some type of separator in front of the blower wheel, rarely I'm told fires have ignited in the dust bin from a nail or screw hitting the metal blower and creating a spark. It could potentially smolder for days and then burn your shop down. Something to consider.
    The solution to that is to have a cyclone before the blower.

  12. #27
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    +1 on John's comments. Same experiences here right down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    My opinion is different. My 5hp has a 15" "blower" impeller. To me it is perfect - when sanding spindles I've watched dust come off the lathe and travel about 2' horizontally to be sucked up by the intake nozzle.

    I split one drop into three 4" hoses to the bandsaw, one to the bottom cabinet, one to a box around the lower guides, and one on a flex tube I hold in place with a magnet on the top of the table as needed. I get almost zero dust inside and outside the bandsaw.

    I run a 4" hose to the stock collection nozzle of a performax 22-44 sander and my Dylos particle counter about 6' away barely budges. I can put a 40' 2.5" hose on one blast gate and vacuum the floors and machines all over the shop.

    I've never heard of too much suctions and too much air movement being a bad thing. The cyclone itself doesn't take up any more space than many DCs with less power. One downside is the larger wire to feed the 5hp motor but I wired all of it myself before the walls were covered and the difference was insignificant.

    I personally would rather have way more suction and air movement than needed. I think the decision boils down to cost vs benefit. You only pay once but benefit for life. I think the 5hp cyclone benefits my health and my life.

    BTW, there is a huge benefit of mounting a cyclone (and air compressor) in a sound insulated closet. Without the closet you have annoyance at minimum and at worse can risk hearing damage without protection. With the closet we can converse normally and even hear a whisper just outside the closet.

    JKJ

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Paul View Post
    +1 on John's comments. Same experiences here right down the line.
    I agree with John too. My 2hp does not keep dust level below the level that irritates my lungs. I have to wear a mask for most stock prep. I am going to upgrade to the 5 hp Smart Gorilla. But if you can’t quite afford that tool, a mask is still good protection. I use the RZ mask. The exhale valve helps to prevent fogging up my glasses.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    BTW, there is a huge benefit of mounting a cyclone (and air compressor) in a sound insulated closet. Without the closet you have annoyance at minimum and at worse can risk hearing damage without protection. With the closet we can converse normally and even hear a whisper just outside the closet.JKJ
    I did that for my compressor & DC as well. It was a lot of work, but well worth the effort. It was a lot of fun diving down the rabbit hole of acoustic attenuation construction methods. I probably went a little overboard, but that room is actually in the house & I didn't want to take a chance on that noise disturbing others.

    I can stand 1m from the door with the DC remote, turn it on & off & have no way of knowing that it's running, other than putting my ear right up to the door.

  15. #30
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    I'm without the DC/Compressor closet in my temporary shop...I gotta wear hearing protection a whole lot more as a result!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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