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Thread: Exterior Door with 1/2" Panels and 1/4" Glass?

  1. #1

    Exterior Door with 1/2" Panels and 1/4" Glass?

    I've been looking at plans for doors and all rail/style cutters either cut a 1/4" or 1/2" tongue groove. I need to build a door with 1/2" panels that are not raised (so I need a 1/2" slot) and 1/4" laminated glass.

    What would be the proper way to do this, because it seems like you have to cut the 1/2" groove all the way down the rails. The glass needs to start at the rail, so you would have to shim it by 1/8" on both sides of the glass? The other problem is, this won't allow for replacement of the glass.

    I've been racking my brain trying to figure out the best way to approach this and haven't come up with any great ideas.

  2. #2
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    You will want to make a removable stop for the glass. The glass company supplying the glass will have 1/8" foam tape that's sticky on both sides that can make up the difference. If needed I guess you could just use a style and rail bit for glass and make a stop for both the glass and the wood panels.

  3. #3
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    As mentioned glazing bead/stop. This is a cabinet door but the concept is the same.
    20210204_234513.jpg

  4. #4
    You should allow for replacement of the glass. Some cope/stick cutter sets can be set up so the molding is formed on only one face of the door leaving a rabbet open to the other face for insertion of the glass and wood panels which are held in with removable stops. Otherwise you can remove the molding on one face at the glass openings with a flush trim bit.

  5. #5
    I guess my confusion is, the rail gets cut all the same time. It's suggested using a glass cutter to remove the lower part of the rail so you can use a glass stop instead. I don't understand how you can use a glass cutter for just half the door since you would only want to remove the section of wood with the glass.

    To be more specific I included a picture of a door. Im going to run the rails through a shaper with a 1/2" cutter to create a groove. This will run the length of the rail A & B. The upper portion of the door (A) will have 1/4" laminated glass (C).

    door-example.jpg

    When I run this through my shaper, I can add a glass cutter to allow a stop to be added for the glass (C) but that would also remove the material from rail B which I need. Also, while I could use the 1/8" tape suggested, I think it would look poor up close if the tape was just on rail A and not on the other 3 sides of the glass and It doesn't seem to make sense to cut 1/2" bead/stop in the center dividers and backfill with tape.

    I have been looking at door plans, and youtube videos, but I always see 1/2" grooves and 1/2" glass used, or they just assemble the door and use a router to cut out the groove for the glass and use no T&G for the rails and styles.

    For example:

    http://woodarchivist.com/wp-content/...ont-Door-2.jpg

    I can see in that plan they are using 1/2" glass, and they have a 1/2" groove with a stop on the right panel. Its not clear how they removed the excess material from the rails to add the stop so precisely.

    Another example from Freud R&S set:

    https://www.ptreeusa.com/PDF/EDMS-Instructions.pdf

    They also cut 1/2" grooves and use 1/2" glass.

    Thanks for the help!

  6. #6
    Hi Kevin,

    Yeah, I have a glass cutter, but it would cut the entire rail, not just the glass portion. I was also considering a flush trim bit, but I expect you would assemble the door FIRST, and then flush trim the glass area after. Any thoughts on the 1/4" glass in the 1/2" groove?

    Derek

  7. #7
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    Get a double pane sealed window unit for the door...it will be typically .5" thick so can use the same groove as your .5" thick lower panel. Mixing the thicknesses makes for a huge amount of work for you and using the double glass panel is more energy efficient, too.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    The stop is sized to accommodate the thinner glass. Either way you have to remove 1/2 of the sticking to create a rabbit where the glass will be installed. There is no way to seal the glass (glazing tape or wet sealant) to the door otherwise.

    Just assemble the door then remove the sticking and create the rabbit with a router.


    Is this going to be a SDL Applied grid or real TDL?

  9. #9
    Am I missing something? The rails and stiles are all profiled with full profile sticking. A plow is made at the same time, or before or after profiling. Then a straight cutter is mounted in the shaper and set so as to remove the sticking on what will be the inside of the door. The sticking is removed only in the upper 3/5 of the door stiles, with a cut that passes the sticking at the top rail, but removes said sticking down to the mid rail, where that cut stops just short of where the mid rail intersects the stile. Rails will get the same cut, but thru the length, no need to stop and start.
    Assemble the door and measure for your glass. When setting the glass (in RTV sealant), apply the sealant around the perimeter, and allow squeezeout. Also apply a thin bead of sealant on the inside of the glass, just before you set the stops in place. Squeezeout allowed. Cleran it up in 36 hrs with a new, sharp razor blade.

    Dave Sochar
    www.acornwoodworks.com
    I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    - Kurt Vonnegut

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Get a double pane sealed window unit for the door...it will be typically .5" thick so can use the same groove as your .5" thick lower panel. Mixing the thicknesses makes for a huge amount of work for you and using the double glass panel is more energy efficient, too.
    Hi Jim,

    We were going to do that but the design of the door doesn't allow for that because those panes require 7/16th inch recess. Thats why we are going with single pane security glass.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sankovich View Post
    Is this going to be a SDL Applied grid or real TDL?
    TDL, or at least that was the plan. The center dividers were going to be 1" wide, hence the problem with double pane windows needing to be recessed 7/16th inch.

    The door also has some architectural glass that's curved around some curved styling.

    Have you had luck with SDL having the same "aesthetic" as TDL?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by David Sochar View Post
    Am I missing something?
    I'm sure its me thats missing something

    Quote Originally Posted by David Sochar View Post
    The sticking is removed only in the upper 3/5 of the door stiles, with a cut that passes the sticking at the top rail, but removes said sticking down to the mid rail, where that cut stops just short of where the mid rail intersects the stile.
    I'm not sure how this is done, so I guess thats part of my question. How do you make a cut that "passes" part of the rail but removes it from the rest? When I pass the rail through the shaper, it will cut the entire rail the same.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Hi Jim,

    We were going to do that but the design of the door doesn't allow for that because those panes require 7/16th inch recess. Thats why we are going with single pane security glass.
    I recently used five of these panels...one in a door and four in fixed windows and they were pretty much spot on .5" thick which is what you indicated you needed for your fixed panels. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something and I apologize for that.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    Its a stopped cut. You would plunge the work into the cut and pull it out of the cut at a specific point

    Rather than try to explain, its outlined here
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ot-on-a-shaper

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by derek labian View Post
    Hi Kevin,

    Yeah, I have a glass cutter, but it would cut the entire rail, not just the glass portion. I was also considering a flush trim bit, but I expect you would assemble the door FIRST, and then flush trim the glass area after. Any thoughts on the 1/4" glass in the 1/2" groove?

    Derek
    If you were to machine the door using the glass cutter both the panels and glass would be secured with loose stops. To use the same depth molding on both as stops, use 1/2" glass or pad out the glass with glazing tape. You can also use stops of a different depth for the two materials.

    If using a flush trim bit you would assemble the door first then waste the molding where needed. The joint will look "wrong" because there is a section of short grain between the sash bar end and the rabbet which would not be there if using the glass cutter. David and Jared explained another way to confine the loose stops to the glazed area.

    For true divided lights with insulated units you typically need a wide muntin. There is one outfit here in VT that does narrow sightline IGU's for traditional appearance fenestration. https://www.greenmtninsulatedglass.com/

    For SDL's, a loose sash bar is typically adhered to the glass over the internal divider using glazing tape. The cost is less, but the look is different. If you are in a cold winter location, insulated glass is a better choice than single pane.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 02-05-2021 at 9:10 PM.

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