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Thread: Finish Update on 4 Year Old House Door

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    WNY
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    Finish Update on 4 Year Old House Door

    I built this door 4-1/2 years ago.



    It faces due West and has no roof to protect it from sun, rain, etc. It's a brutal environment for a wood door. The door is Sapele veneer on a stave core core. The finish was PPG Cetol Door and Window finish, 2 coats of mahogany and one coat of clear satin.

    I see the door several times a year and keep track of the finish. Last year I thought it needed to have the finish refreshed but of course Covid put it on hold like many other things. When I saw the door this year I was sure it needed to be refreshed. This is how it looked a week ago.



    You can see how much the finish has faded, and it's dull. But what you don't see is any peeling, cracking or bare spots because there are none. The great thing about Cetol Door and Window finish is that it doesn't do any of those things, rather, it ages by slowing chalking off. IMO this is a beautiful thing; when it needs to be refinished you only need to clean it, scuff sand it, and put on another coat or two of finish. Because the prior finish chalks off the new ones don't build up like varnish which ultimately leads to problems.

    Here is how the door looks now after one coat of 50/50 mahogany/satin clear plus a coat of satin clear.



    I intended to apply one coat of full strength mahogany but found there wasn't enough to do that so I added some clear satin to it so there would be. So it's a little lighter in color compared to the original but looks much improved over the aged finish. I removed the panels and finished them separately and then reinstalled them after everything was dry. I think it should be good for another 3 or 4 years.

    PPG Cetol Door and Window finish is good stuff.

    John

  2. #2
    Thanks, John. Always looking for better products, and anyone documenting results like this is a gift.
    After years of epifanes use, I really could use some viable alternatives, and the fact that this eliminates cracking/peeling is very interesting.
    Any reason you reached for this product vs. Emtech 9300 series? (cracking/peeling vs chalking, I presume?)

    jeff

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    WNY
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    Jeff, I only became aware of the Cetol Door and Widow product from the neighbor of the lady I built this door for. She said he had tried all kinds of things on his white oak door, just a few houses down the street and with the same exposure, and he had concluded the Cetol product was by far the best. So I was basically instructed to use it, which was great because then I was completely off the hook if it failed. But as you can see it really does perform great even under very difficult conditions. This house is in Buffalo, NY where we get -20 to 95F temperatures and 40" of water a year. Lots of dank wet days but also hot sunny ones, too. I used the Cetol product on my own house door which is now not quite 2 years old. So far, another success story. It goes on great with a brush and flows out like it was sprayed, which makes the inevitable maintenance much easier.

    I wouldn't use Epifanes on a house door. Seven coats takes too long, is too thick, and stays too soft for too long. EM-9300 could be a good choice. I actually tried using it on the second house door I made but it wouldn't flow out over the pores of the white oak I made the door out of. I went around and around with Jeff about it and never resolved it so I switched to GF's Exterior 450. It flowed out with no issues. Exterior 450 is not as clear as EM-9300, and I doubt as durable either, but it sure was easy to use and since the door is covered by a storm door I'm sure it will last a really long time.

    As long as I'm thinking about it, if you put a wood door behind a storm door you are headed for trouble if that door (especially if it's dark in color) gets much direct sun unless you vent the storm door. You can buy vented storm doors or you can retrofit a non vented one by drilling holes and installing vent covers. I retrofitted one over a south facing wood door I made and had the homeowner install 3M heat/UV reflective film on the storm door glass, too. No problems yet.

    John

  4. #4
    John, you said that you removed the panels for refinishing. How are they held in?

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Kevin, you see those narrow moldings on the outside around the panels? Those are glued in place. There are identical moldings on the inside and they are screwed in place. I built it that way specifically so the panels could be removed for refinishing. BTW, each side has two panels facing back to back. That allows the inside and outside panels to expand/contract independently.

    Because there is no porch roof covering the door rain hits the door and runs down the panels. Even though the panels fit tightly against the molding I figured some water would run down into the lower rail, behind that molding, so I put weep holes, 3 for each panel, in the dado you see on the outside of the molding to let that water run out. When I had the panels out I looked to see if the weep holes were still working. They are, or at least I think they are because it was dry in there. And I also found there was no rot or other damage to the wood in there. Of course, I had applied finish to everything when I built the door to protect the wood. Epoxy sealer would have been even better but I didn't know about that product when I built this door.

    John

  6. #6
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    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    Thanks so much for posting this!!

  7. #7
    John,
    I was in awe of your excellent workmanship of that one gorgeous door! In addition to, the finish the color, and superior fore thought. As to the removable panels for the possibility of needing later finishing was almost as brilliant as including the weep holes!
    The only question I have for you is: while the panels were removed, was any thought given to trying to darken the styles and rails for a more monochromatic look? I really do like the finished look. This was more of a thought provoking question for my own edification, certainly not to question you for your thought process.
    And three questions for the homeowner:during the time you were laboring on such beautiful door, why didn't she have the brasses polished, the caulking of the marble redone redone, and the door lamp base cleaned, or, replaced and the rusting anchor screws replaced with stainless steel?
    Or, should have bit my tongue and waited to see your next image...

    John,All and All it a beautiful work of art! Thanks for allowing us to view Your work.
    Ed

  8. #8
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    WNY
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    Thanks very much for the kind words, Ed. The color variation in the door is influenced by the ambient light, angle of viewing, and sun angle. Even in the first photo, when it was first installed, the lower rail looks lighter than the rest, yet the color looked very consistent in my shop. However, I could have done a better job on the refinish had I used full strength mahogany, but there wasn't enough of it so I had to cut it with the clear satin. I probably should have applied two coats of that mix rather than just one coat and then the clear satin topcoat. As my 9th grade science teacher used to say "You pay your money and you make your choice.".

    If by brasses you mean the lockset, it's exactly the same as when I installed it and she paid a King's ransom for it. Hand made stuff; very nice. The marble mortar definitely needs help; you're spot on. The whole front of the house needs serious attention, actually; it tips forward at least 1/2" over the just the height of the door which made installing the door plumb and getting it trimmed out so it looked right quite a challenge. Further, the stone sill leans downhill to the left, which resulted in me using a hidden bottom seal rather than a more conventional approach. The good news is it's still working perfectly. Because there is no porch or roof above the door it and everything around it takes a beating from the weather. The house was built in the 1920's, I think, so it's nearly 100 years old now. All in all it's in good shape but definitely could use some stabilization and restoration work to prevent real problems from developing in the coming years. Me, I'm just the door guy.

    John

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