Seeking advice for bell pole foundation

[Tony Zona]

Here’s the challenge. What size foundation do I need to stand a 22-foot pole that will hold a cast bell on top? The bell will have a rope to pull to ring it, and is nine inches tall and a foot around. It and its mounting weighs about 25 pounds or so.

The pole has a four-hole mount at the bottom to bolt to the foundation. The pole is about six inches diameter at the bottom, tapering to about three inches at the top. The wall is an eighth-inch thick. I have to use a tractor with front-end loader to lift it. It is quite heavy.

My question: what size foundation do I need? I assume it needs to be concrete. What diameter and depth? The soil is not clay, but is dense.

Next: I’m guessing I need to get a small crane or bucket truck to lift it, unless you have a way I can safely do it with help. Maybe use the tractor and a gin pole to tug the bell pole up. I might be able to use safety rope fastened to a sturdy pergola, but I’m not sure.

I have futilely searched the internet, but have found nothing helpful about, first, the foundation, and, second, how to stand it.

Knowledge is desired. No guessing, please.

[Bill Dufour]

How big a ground crew? I would use a gin pole about 1/3 of the way up.
Bill D.

https://aretelecom.com/conventional-gin-pole-detail/

[Ronald Blue]

I think most utilities use a 10% plus 2' ratio. Personally I'd want it 5 feet in the ground minimum. That's gonna be a handful to get stood up as Bill says. The other thing that's the way to go is when it's stood up and plumb back fill with gravel. It packs in tight just by wiggling the post. When I was a kid building fence on the farm we hand tamped posts with dirt. Gravel is quick and easy.

[Lee Schierer]

Try this link. https://www.concordamericanflagpole....ation-options/

I would find someone with a bucket truck or man lift to pick the pole up so it can be lowered over the steel threaded anchor bolts embedded in the concrete. I would not recommend the threaded rod found in your average big box store. I would want grade 4 or grade 5 anchors.

[Walter Mooney]

Tony,

I'm not a structural engineer, just a guy with 45 years in the construction biz and have poured many, many light pole (and flag pole) bases. So the following is just a seat-of-the-pants guesstimate:

Typically, you'd want a minimum of two inches of concrete coverage outside of the anchor bolts (3" is a bit better). So measure the diagonal of the anchor bolt pattern (probably a square pattern, maybe 9"x9"?), and add at least four inches (six inches would be better) to get the overall diameter of your footing and get 2 - 3" of coverage on your bolts. The concrete footing is going to have to rely on the friction between it and the ground for the support, and only partially on the bearing strength of the soil at the bottom of the hole. Since you haven't given much info on the soil, I'd guess you should have a footing that's at least six feet deep (deeper wouldn't hurt). Make a plywood template of the bolt pattern that, as a square, is larger than or equal to the diameter of your footing (so it can rest on the top of the sonotube after you've poured the concrete). Put the anchor bolts in the template. Get a piece of sonotube 6" - 12" long to put on top of the soil to bring the top of your footing to above grade. Probably use maybe six #5 rebars vertically in the footing, held in a circle by 4 - 6 #3 stirrups, again, allowing for a minimum of two inches of concrete coverage outside the rebar 'cage'). Pour at least a 5-sack mix (translates to 3000 psi concrete). Put the anchor bolts, in the template, in the top of the freshly-poured footing, being certain to orient them as needed (if the pole needs to 'face' a certain way for use or whatever).

So so if your footing is say 14" in diameter, your rebar stirrups would be a maximum of 10" in diameter. If that were the case, you could probably do with four #5 rebars vertically.

Again, this is all just an educated guess. YMMV.

[Ronald Blue]

My bad. I totally missed the 4 bolt base. Disregard everything I said since it is of zero benefit here. I will say I don't think I ever saw a bell on a metal pole. I have a "dinner" bell on a wood pole.

[Bill Dufour]

Easy way to raise. a flag pole is to use parallel posts for the support. Set them slightly more then the width of the flagpole apart. A pin at the top of the posts for a pivot and one near the bottom to lock the pole up right. And counterweight ballast to the bottom of the pole.
The ones I see at school weld heavy channel iron to the pole and I belive it is filled with concrete.
At the lab they made shielding blocks from heavy concrete. This is just regular concrete but they used iron ore/taconite for the aggregate making it denser.
Bill D.

Bill D.

[Tom M King]

I used a tractor loader to set eight light poles around a riding arena. I tied a Prussic hitch about a foot less than the max lift of the loader, with that line fastened to a short length of chain. The chain was grabbed by the chain hook on the bucket.

I padded the bottom of the poles with some moving blankets, and tied some 45 pound weightlifting plates to the bottom, so the otherwise topheavy pole would hang vertically.

It really wasn't that bad, and we had the eight poles set in a couple of hours.

Don't forget to put the leveling nuts under the pole base before you set them.

For those, we just poured the bases in the cardboard tubes, and made plywood spacers to make sure the anchor bolts were set correctly.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Do a little searching, and most likely you can find a precast concrete base for your pole. That's what the local power companies use for street lights. Same goes for RR crossing guards. Dig a hole, lower base into hole, and back fill and tamp.

[Tom Bender]

Lots of good advice above. Just a few tips to add;

Make a bolt hole template and while the concrete is wet, test the fit, you can still make minor adjustments at that point. It should be closer tolerance than the pole base.

Protect the threads from concrete. Duct tape works.

Definitely make the concrete come above grade, even a foot above would not be wrong, to protect the pole from lawn mowers, weed whackers, moisture etc. A chamfer at the top is an important feature.

This is going to take quite a bit of concrete, you will not be mixing it in a wheel barrow.

You will need to provide substantial support for the sonotube so it is straight when done.

It would not be wrong to place a mud mat in the hole first.

You will want to remove the top of the sonotube down at least a few inches. Precut it into halves and tape it back together. Also cut it at the bottom and tape that too. This upper part will not see a lot of hydraulic pressure so it will be ok.

[Frank Pratt]

Before pouring concrete, make a template out of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood and secure the anchor bolts to it with a nut & washer on both sides of the template. Then set the bolts into the concrete so the bottom nut is above the surface of the concrete. The lower nuts are what will facilitate levelling when the pole goes up. The anchor bolts, nuts & washers must be hot dipped galvanized. Note that standard nuts will not fit on a hot dipped galvanized bolt.

After the pole is up & leveled, use a non-shrinking grout to pack in between the pole base & the concrete. Around here, a 22' pole requires 3/4" anchor bolts.

[Tony Zona]

Thanks, folks. I have a bunch to think about here.

First, though, I must paint this thing. Every time I set out to paint, it rains. Or I'm occupied with other commitments.

Also, I'll have to find a way to free the cast bell mount severely rusted into its steel mounting that bolts to the pole.

So far, everybody suggests heating the steel red and letting it cool. That might break the rust so that I can carefully work the mounting off. I have a neighbor pretty skilled in torch operation.

I do know that I cannot swing a hammer at it, not with the the mounting being cast iron, I think.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Thanks, folks. I have a bunch to think about here.

First, though, I must paint this thing. Every time I set out to paint, it rains. Or I'm occupied with other commitments.

Also, I'll have to find a way to free the cast bell mount severely rusted into its steel mounting that bolts to the pole.

So far, everybody suggests heating the steel red and letting it cool. That might break the rust so that I can carefully work the mounting off. I have a neighbor pretty skilled in torch operation.

I do know that I cannot swing a hammer at it, not with the the mounting being cast iron, I think.

Ah, the old "heat wrench trick."