Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: And You Thought a GE Refridgerator Was Bad!

  1. #1

    And You Thought a GE Refridgerator Was Bad!

    Currently there is a shortage, as in none available, of PACCAR DEF gauges for Peterbilt, and KW trucks. DEF is diesel exhaust fluid, which is required in newer diesel trucks. The gauge reports to the computer on the amount of DEF in the tank. As the DEF level falls, computer slows engine down , finally to an almost stop, rendering the engine useless. This means trucking companies, both large and small are having to park trucks worth a half million, because they can't get a $500 replacement part. To me $500 seems a little steep for amounts to a fuel level sensor. According to what I read, about 25% of their trucks are effected by this faulty level sensor. Wait times for new sensors are over 3 months now. And you thought a GE refridgerator was bad. Remember when these trucks are parked, their owners aren't getting any income, but the payments are still due. Wouldn't be surprised to see a Class Action Lawsuit over this

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    1,726
    This type of thing is wide spread and not unique to Peterbilt and Kenworth. We have a Cat backhoe down because of a similar issue. The supply chain is the issue. I would say the DEF sending unit is the issue on the trucks. That's the issue with the backhoe. Because there is so much shared in these types of applications it wouldn't surprise me if it is a virtually identical part. The ECM put's them in derate and then if the issue isn't resolved it will shut them down. The issue is across numerous brands/engine builders. Maybe the parts that are needed are on one of the 40 container ships anchored off California in the Los Angeles/Long Beach area.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    23,876
    Blog Entries
    1
    If there was a way to hack the sender there would likely be all kinds of diesel owners doing just that so they wouldn't have to fill up with DEF every so often.

    Maybe the parts that are needed are on one of the 40 .
    As time goes by those "40 container ships anchored off California in the Los Angeles/Long Beach area" likely won't have enough DEF supply sender units on board to fill all the need. The problem is like a growing snowball.

    Sounds like an opportunity if someone can find a way to repair the non-working units.

    This is our fate from "globalization." For the profits of cheap labor we can not get critical parts in a timely manner during rough times.

    What would happen if things got really rough?

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 09-05-2021 at 8:24 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Livonia, Michigan
    Posts
    761
    It doesn't just sense the level in the tank, it's also a DEF quality sensor. Just to make sure you don't fill the tank with water.

    The problem isn't just tractor-trailers and backhoes it also includes RVs, combines and other inconsequential things like fire trucks and EMS vehicles.

    Before the parts can be shipped to the east coast, the west coast trucks have to be fixed. Unless you fly the parts across the country. Then hope the FedEx truck doesn't founder and die on the way!

    -Tom

    -Tom

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    23,876
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stenzel View Post
    It doesn't just sense the level in the tank, it's also a DEF quality sensor. Just to make sure you don't fill the tank with water.

    The problem isn't just tractor-trailers and backhoes it also includes RVs, combines and other inconsequential things like fire trucks and EMS vehicles.

    Before the parts can be shipped to the east coast, the west coast trucks have to be fixed. Unless you fly the parts across the country. Then hope the FedEx truck doesn't founder and die on the way!

    -Tom

    -Tom
    My point questions why these can not be made in North America to fulfill our needs?

    BTW, my truck is a diesel and these kinds of service problems worry me.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Livonia, Michigan
    Posts
    761
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    My point questions why these can not be made in North America to fulfill our needs?

    BTW, my truck is a diesel and these kinds of service problems worry me.

    jtk
    Jim, if you can't get parts for your diesel don't feel picked on. I just replaced a sensor in my daughter's car. Normally $20 on line, $30 in the store, but $60 if I wanted one in my fist anytime soon. At least I got it and the car runs OK.

    My minivan has the Chrysler Pentastar V-6 that uses a cartridge oil filter. Nice but the plastic oil filter housing has a crack in it. It's not leaking yet but when it lets go it's a $400 part that needs the upper and lower intake manifolds removed. If I get the work done at the dealer: over $800.

    That is if they can get the housing. It's on national backorder. Remember, this is to save me all the problems that spin-on oil filters have . I'm sure I can get it done cheaper elsewhere but still...

    I replaced a Maytag washer last fall because it needed a part. On national backorder with no deliver date. I now have a Speedqueen.

    It's not just diesel trucks. It's everything. As far as making things here I'd be more than glad to discuss but it would rapidly turn political so I'll shut up

    -Tom
    Last edited by Tom Stenzel; 09-05-2021 at 7:53 PM. Reason: speling erors.

  7. #7
    A cartridge filter? It's been over fifty years since I saw one of those. So much for forward marching technology. Even on my fifties Ford Y blocks, we bought a conversion kit to allow for spin on filters. Same went for Chevy 283's.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    23,876
    Blog Entries
    1
    As far as making things here I'd be more than glad to discuss but it would rapidly turn political so I'll shut up
    Paraphrased from Aesop's Fables:

    "Necessity is the mother of invention"

    Someone with the ability to start up manufacturing could really rake in the money. Start with something easy and expand as the profits roll in.

    It might not be long term.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #9
    Glad the only diesel I have to worry about is 21 years old.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Paraphrased from Aesop's Fables:

    "Necessity is the mother of invention"

    Someone with the ability to start up manufacturing could really rake in the money. Start with something easy and expand as the profits roll in.

    It might not be long term.

    jtk

    Because the sensor is part of the emissions system, it has to be submitted to EPA for verification (meaning it works as well as OEM one.) This is a lengthy drawn out process. But the government could "fast track" it, same as with Covid vaccines. With the Presidents "Right to Repair" mandate this seems likely to happen. Because of the Urea content, truckers refer to DEF as "Cat Pee."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Paraphrased from Aesop's Fables:

    "Necessity is the mother of invention"

    Someone with the ability to start up manufacturing could really rake in the money. Start with something easy and expand as the profits roll in.

    It might not be long term.

    jtk
    Most likely it's proprietary information. Could it be reverse engineered? Probably. But only if there isn't any patents involved. They are far more than just a fuel sending unit. They sense a delivery/flow issue they will set a code. The fluid level in the tank is another part of it as well. As was mentioned if the DEF fluid deteriorates in quality that will cause issues. Whether the units in question are sourced from the same supplier or multiple suppliers I have no way of knowing. Bosch is a major player in fuel systems but the after treatment systems may be manufacturer's own design. Because of EPA mandates the systems have several linked components so the system isn't bypassed. Even if someone was willing to make the investment to produce the components here then the issue of finding employees becomes the next challenge. I truly hope that manufacturing begins to return but I won't hold my breath. So many factors at work here.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    4,719
    I am seeing reports that the latest semi tractors with emissions are getting almost 50% better MPG than older semi tractors. Trucking companies that use owner operators are recommending to them that they get a 2017 or newer semi tractor as the sensor problems are mostly fixed and the MPG is much higher. An operator can cover their financing payment with their fuel sabings. This is more true than ever with diesel prices getting to be well over $3 in a lot of places.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    Posts
    1,863
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Paraphrased from Aesop's Fables:

    Someone with the ability to start up manufacturing could really rake in the money. Start with something easy and expand as the profits roll in.

    jtk
    a little company in Lenexa Kansas called Filti used to make all sorts of filter fabric for industrial applications. When the pandemic hit, they switched all production to raw fabric for surgical and n95. Then, seeing an opportunity in all the good people sewing masks, they set up an e-commerce site selling the fabric by the yard. The masks I made have an inner pocket for the filter. Then seeing opportunity in all the fuss over air filtering, they started manufacturing HEPA (MERV > 16) filters for home HVAC. As far as I know, they are pretty busy.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,408
    Does this sensor go bad or is it timed so it shuts down until replaced after so many hours/miles of run time? I do not think the engine oil monitors shut down the engine until the oil gets changed do they?
    Ge water filters do shut it down after so many gallons.
    Bill D

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the Land of Lincoln
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Does this sensor go bad or is it timed so it shuts down until replaced after so many hours/miles of run time? I do not think the engine oil monitors shut down the engine until the oil gets changed do they?
    Ge water filters do shut it down after so many gallons.
    Bill D
    My experience is the fail. Length of service varies greatly.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •