And You Thought a GE Refridgerator Was Bad!

[Bruce Wrenn]

I am seeing reports that the latest semi tractors with emissions are getting almost 50% better MPG than older semi tractors. Trucking companies that use owner operators are recommending to them that they get a 2017 or newer semi tractor as the sensor problems are mostly fixed and the MPG is much higher. An operator can cover their financing payment with their fuel sabings. This is more true than ever with diesel prices getting to be well over $3 in a lot of places.

Watched a Video from ET Trucking last night. First fuel MPG isn't 50% more. Older trucks get around seven miles per, while newer gets about 8.5 MPG. Fuel costs are lower, HOWEVER, this doesn't include the cost of the DEF (three bucks a gallon,) nor lost revenue when truck is in shop awaiting parts. Remember the lease payments continue, no matter that the truck is in the shop. Often the wait time is 2-3 weeks. With an older truck, you can do an in frame rebuild in a week, then it's back on the road for the next 250 - 500 K miles. Usually older truck is bought out right, while newer truck is leased. In five years, the truck goes back to leasor, and cycle starts over. No equity in the truck. In five years, older truck sells for about, or more than you paid for it. Very few of the older trucks have APU's, which mean engine idles all night every night, which on paper means fuel economy goes down. Hang an APU on it, and instantly fuel usage drops. As with most things, it isn't the price, but what it costs in the long run.

[Richard Hart]

What would happen if things got really rough?

jtk

Unless the present political climate changes, it will.

[Richard Hart]

I am all for non-predatory capitalism and less, not more, government but there are some things where it does need to step in and outlaw some things outright-"proprietary" parts being one, that are vital for said piece of equipment (your 18 wheeler or GE refrigerator, as mentioned here) There are some things that should be made by law to adhere to an industry standard-period-no matter the manufacturer. Wanna require a DEF gauge? Fine. Make one part that fits every vehicle that requires it, no matter the make.
I'm old school, but I love technology. My experience is in electronics and as far as I'm concerned computers do *not* belong in motor vehicles-or home appliances.
Glad I'm old.

[Bruce Wrenn]

[QUOTE=Richard Hart;3142 My experience is in electronics and as far as I'm concerned computers do *not* belong in motor vehicles-or home appliances.
Glad I'm old.[/QUOTE] I feel the same about alcohol in gasoline. Liquor was made for drinking, not driving.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm old school, but I love technology. My experience is in electronics and as far as I'm concerned computers do *not* belong in motor vehicles-or home appliances.
Glad I'm old.

You would rather go back to carbs or mechanical fuel injection? Not me. I like my electronic fuel injection. Vehicles have had electronics/computers in them since EFI became a thing. I also like ABS living in a snowy state. I don't believe I could manualy pump the brakes as well as ABS does.

I have a 1995 coach bus converted to a motorhome. Both the engine and transmission are electronically controlled. I like the throttle by wire rather than an air throttle or, even worse, a cable throttle. Cables corrode or break over the years. Air throttles can be finicky, probably because air compresses. I really wanted a four stroke engine instead of a two stroke the older buses have. I get one to two MPG better than the folks with the older engines.

[Ronald Blue]

You would rather go back to carbs or mechanical fuel injection? Not me. I like my electronic fuel injection. Vehicles have had electronics/computers in them since EFI became a thing. I also like ABS living in a snowy state. I don't believe I could manualy pump the brakes as well as ABS does.

I have a 1995 coach bus converted to a motorhome. Both the engine and transmission are electronically controlled. I like the throttle by wire rather than an air throttle or, even worse, a cable throttle. Cables corrode or break over the years. Air throttles can be finicky, probably because air compresses. I really wanted a four stroke engine instead of a two stroke the older buses have. I get one to two MPG better than the folks with the older engines.

I'm in agreement Brian. I like the performance and drivability of of todays electronically controlled engines and transmissions. I don't miss carbureted engines. No pumping the accelerator and feathering it to keep it running until it warms up. Reliability has became very good on todays vehicles. So many things you would give up if you turned back the clock 40 plus years. Cruise control for example. The electronic cruise is so smooth and seamless. Mechanical cruise controls worked but not nearly as smooth as todays electronic ones. Maybe some things are overkill in todays vehicles but I'm not complaining about them. I know the old vehicles are easier to work on but I'm at the age I am not really interested in working on my vehicles much anymore. I used to do a lot of repair work to save money. I'm happy with todays vehicle technology.

[Richard Hart]

You would rather go back to carbs or mechanical fuel injection? Not me. I like my electronic fuel injection. Vehicles have had electronics/computers in them since EFI became a thing. I also like ABS living in a snowy state. I don't believe I could manualy pump the brakes as well as ABS does.

I have a 1995 coach bus converted to a motorhome. Both the engine and transmission are electronically controlled. I like the throttle by wire rather than an air throttle or, even worse, a cable throttle. Cables corrode or break over the years. Air throttles can be finicky, probably because air compresses. I really wanted a four stroke engine instead of a two stroke the older buses have. I get one to two MPG better than the folks with the older engines.

Oh boy... you got me! I was thinking along different lines.
I wouldn't have a carburated [sp] engine now for nuthin.' Every one I did have was trouble and each successive one was worse than the last. How easy you forget...
Appliances though? I stand by that one, aside from the fact that they spy on you.

[Frank Pratt]

Oh boy... you got me! I was thinking along different lines.
I wouldn't have a carburated [sp] engine now for nuthin.' Every one I did have was trouble and each successive one was worse than the last. How easy you forget...
Appliances though? I stand by that one, aside from the fact that they spy on you.

You definitely have a good point with appliances. Many have functionality that is basic enough that simple timers & temperature controls that would do just as good a job, be far more reliable & easier to find replacements for when they fail.

[Doug Garson]

Oh boy... you got me! I was thinking along different lines.
I wouldn't have a carburated [sp] engine now for nuthin.' Every one I did have was trouble and each successive one was worse than the last. How easy you forget...
Appliances though? I stand by that one, aside from the fact that they spy on you.

Back in the day I had a Datsun 240Z (pronounced Zed up here) with side draft carburetors and starting it in even mildly cool (not cold) temperatures would require careful application of the choke and playing with the throttle until it warmed up. When I traded up to a 280Z with electronic fuel injection, starting was easy as pie even in cold weather.
If your worried about your fridge spying on you, put on your pants before you make that midnight trip to the kitchen for a snack.

[Brian Elfert]

None of your appliances are going to spy on you if you don't actually connect them to the Internet. No reason they should need Internet access anyhow. I bought a $600 Frigidaire fridge last September. It appears that the controls are still all manual in it.

I have a 2016 vehicle with no touchscreen, no Bluetooth, and not even a backup camera. It has dials for the HVAC, but the HVAC is totally electronic behind those dials! This model was supposed to be dropped after 2016 and replaced with a new model with a new name in 2017. That is the reason the car is relatively free of the stuff new cars all have now. In the end, the manufacturer released the new model and kept producing the old model as a cheaper alternative until May 2020.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Our beloved government has criminalized the act of altering the "environment" systems on diesels, meaning that it is illegal to even try to figure out a solution that alters the system or that does not use OEM parts. You can't even change a computer setting on your own vehicle legally now. No exceptions. No, the right to repair nonsense has nothing to do with this. DEF systems were a terrible design to appease the same moronic dictates, they were not and cannot be made reliable. Go open the door on the semi truck DEF dispenser at your local truck stop and you'll see why. That horrible crystalizing, freeze prone crap is being used in a highly engineered fuel system in a way that is absolutely impossible to design for any extended reliability.

No, there is no 50% increase in mileage. I guess 50% fuel savings is possible because the machines are just not reliable and they aren't burning any when broke down. DEF ain't free either, so don't forget to add the cost of your emissions BS into per mile cost. There is a real reason that the older trucks with 3206E or 60 Series Detroits are selling at a huge premium. They are reliable. Pay attention to the trucks on the road, you'll see it's starting to look like Cuba, the old stuff is just getting resurrected by the little companies who can't afford to rotate a backup fleet through the shop.

Trying to keep a business going without reliable diesel engines is one of the dailey problems of my job, so yes I'm biased.