[OP]
Contributor
I have never turned anything.
I ordered a lathe which is due to arrive tomorrow.
I still need turning tools. Am considering the full size Ultra shear carbide turning tools by woodpeckers.
Any thoughts about the ultra shear tools?
FWIW: First project will be a French style rolling pin made from a 2x2x18 olive wood blank.
Jeremy
Member
If you have never turned anything, I would strongly recommend that you start turning some scrap pine or similar construction lumber to learn the tools and cutting action. You can learn a lot turning pine about needing a sharp tool to prevent tearout, grain orientation, tool presentation, ........ and the list is almost endless and cost is very low if you cannot find scrap around a building site. You did not mention your lathe size and that might be a factor in selecting tools since a larger lathe will need larger tools for larger items that would not be needed on a mini or midi lathe. Also you are talking carbide tools and not conventional bowl and spindle gouges that are used more often later on other pieces. The price of a 2x2x18 olive wood blank makes for an expensive practice piece. Try pine. I still do some prototype pieces out of pine after almost 20 years because I am too cheap to practice on a $25-50 blank to work out process and details. Good Luck. Turning should be fun. Find a good turning club and mentor to give you some hands on guidance.
Member
Where in Texas are you? I'm in Brenham.
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks for the suggestions Thomas.
The lathe is 14”x20” Coronet Herald by Record Power. I believe it is considered a MIDI.
Robert—I am in Huntsville.
Member
The carbide tools work, but you also will need traditional tools. Most of the carbide tools are scrapers, which can be very useful. They don't leave as clean of a surface as gouges and skews, which means more sanding. Hunter tools make some cupped carbide cutters which are designed to cut at a shear angle which does leave a cleaner surface. Maybe a bowl gouge or two. a spindle roughing gouge, a skew, a parting tool. You will need a grinder and wheels, the CBN wheels are by far the best. You will need sanding supplies. For bowls, you will want an angle drill. Vince's WoodNwonders has great abrasives. Ken Rizza has sanding supplies as well as CBN wheels and grinders. Best gouges and skews are from D Way and Thompson. If you get into bowl turning, you might need a bandsaw, chainsaw, and a scroll chuck or 4...
I figure the lathe is maybe 1/4 of the cost of what you will put into your woodworking habit... Do try to find a near by club. If one isn't very close, they may have a mentor who lives close by. Excellent information source. I do have a bunch of mostly bowl turning videos up on You Tube.
robo hippy
Contributor
So many directions to take this (these) question(s). So some thoughts:
1- find an instructor. It doesn't really matter if it is a couple intro classes at your local Woodcraft or Rockler, a mentor from a club, a class at your local junior college, or even a more experienced friend. In the worst case get a book or a video series from an experienced teacher.
1a- for your first tools get whatever you use in your classes. (Remember sharpening appropriate for whichever tools you get.)
(1b- then start buying Thompson or D-Way tools!)
2- I've never used the UltraShear version of the carbide insert tools. The EasyWoodTools are, (I believe,) the original carbide insert product and I assume they are similar. There are definitely love or hate opinions about the insert tools. The best description of how they fit in the spectrum of turning tools came from an instructor that uses them in his intro classes. He said he uses them because everyone is successful and enjoys the class, but that 90+% want to be more serious skilled turners and move on to traditional tools. IIRC- Christopher Schwarz, who is *NOT* a turner, has recommended EWT because he can get things to basic shapes without a relearning curve each time.
Another thing to consider is the inserts your carbide tool uses and how well they are seated. I've heard rumors of (some) interchangeability between tools and inserts. (In the machining world there are well defined standard shapes and mixing and matching is easy.) But since each wood tool manufacturer treats their inserts as proprietary it is very hard to tell if they will work well, or at all, with different brands.
As a stepping stone, I'd be tempted to get a Rocker or other off-brand set. If you expect you'll stay with the carbide tools you'll want to look at which inserts are available. (I'm pondering negative rake inserts right now, there is a non-acrylic version of handle plastic the vendors claim is almost impossible to turn without negative rake carbide inserts. My first thought was the small Rocker beginners set, but they don't have neg-rake inserts.)
Lastly size depends on what you turn and what your preferences are. (Use your instructors tools and get a feel for it.) I seem to prefer shorter than average handles and to do spindles and other small (diameter) things, so smaller tools are more comfortable. E.g. the "Midi-Size" EWT are the biggest I'm comfortable with. However, if you expect to be maxing out that lathes capacity... you might put the full size to good use.
3- I agree with starting with something cheap and just cutting the wood down to practice your technique. But construction wood might not be the best choice because there are hard and soft regions (early & late growth) that are challenging. Something more homogeneous would be better. E.g. I found a bunch of off-cuts of mixed maple & ash (about 2" x 2" x 12") that was cheap and made wonderful practice wood for spindles.
Moderator
There is probably a turning club near you. Highly recommend for making connections, getting answers, inspiration. Lots of clubs have a mentoring program or at least experienced people who will welcome you to their shop and give you free lessons. Another option is to take a beginner's class.Originally Posted by jeremy romoser
Carbide tools in general are cheaper and to be blunt will let you hack out something quickly even with no experience. But they can give crude results compared to conventional cutting tools. They can also trap you into never advancing towards excellence in turning. Flat-topped carbide tools have improved over the years but they are still basically scrapers and cannot give the smooth surfaces and detail you can get with conventional cutting tools.
Beyond carbide, some basic conventional tools will let you learn to turn anything and with quality:
3/4-1-1/4" spindle roughing gouge
1/8" parting tool
3/4" skew chisel
3/8-1/2" spindle gouge
3/8"-1/2" bowl gouge
round nose scraper
a scraper ground as a Negative Rake Scraper for smoothing
bench grinder to sharpen (if you can't sharpen you can't turn, unless you stick to the carbide path)
Inexpensive HSS tools are fine. Sets are sometimes cheaper than buying one at a time. Don't buy very expensive tools at first until you are sure you love this and find yourself addicted. (many do!)
Will help a lot:
a 4-jaw scroll chuck such as a Novas or one of the others.
an extra set of jaws that will hold 3/4-2" spindle squares.
good lighting
face shield
dust mask/respirator when sanding
Learn about safety first!
Almost everyone want's to turn bowls. I HIGHLY recommend the unpopular method of starting with spindle turning. Many experts confirm that learning spindle turning first will teach you the tool control that will let you turn anything including bowls and platters. Some agree that it starting with bowls doesn't work the same way. You choose.
Hey, I'd almost drive to Texas to start you off the way I start all beginners, with my guaranteed beginner's skew lesson!
Rebecca_first_lesson.jpg IMG_20160227_133717_059_s.jpg Kristina_wand_comp_IMG_7396.jpg Naomi_wand.jpg boys_comp.jpg
JKJ
Contributor
Use a face shield, mine has saved me several times
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Contributor
I'm guessing Woodpeckers will be the most expensive place you can buy carbide insert scrapers. I don't use them, so can't recommend something else. Just do more research before shelling out that much money.
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses.
Based on the feedback I’ve decided to put the almost $400 I was going to spend on carbide tools into conventional D Way or Thompson tools instead, starting with a few items from John’s list above. Based on the D Way and Thompson websites, I’ll be able to cross several of John’s suggestions off the list. However, I’ll have to wait to call in because I don’t understand the options (handles, quick change knobs, bushings, etc.) that I need/can get with whatever I intended to order. I’ll call them and let them educate me before I place my order.
The closet club meets in Houston about an hour and a half from me. I am a bit surprised there is only one club in all of Houston (even Waco at a fraction of the size of Houston appears to have two clubs). I intend to make a meeting or two to make some connections and possibly find turners closer to me. In the mean time, I’ll be looking for instructors/classes in my area.
John, I am not against a road trip. Especially to the Knoxville area, I hear there is a lot of great hiking around there. Of course my “shop” is always open if you find yourself driving this wayDo you have any information/schedules on your beginner’s skew classes listed anywhere?
Dave, thanks for the recommendation on the face shield. It is ordered and should arrive sometime this week.
As far as bench grinders go—I have my old Baldor low speed grinder that I used to use to sharpen my hoof knives back in my horse shoeing days, I assume with the right CBN wheel, it will do what I need as far as sharpening my turning tools? If not, any recommendations for a grinder/sharpening set up? My guess is any grinder will do as long as I have the right wheels on it and don’t let my tools overheat?
Thanks again to all. Your responses are appreciated.
Jeremy
Moderator
Jeremy,Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses.
Based on the feedback I’ve decided to put the almost $400 I was going to spend on carbide tools into conventional D Way or Thompson tools instead, starting with a few items from John’s list above. Based on the D Way and Thompson websites, I’ll be able to cross several of John’s suggestions off the list. However, I’ll have to wait to call in because I don’t understand the options (handles, quick change knobs, bushings, etc.) that I need/can get with whatever I intended to order. I’ll call them and let them educate me before I place my order.
The closet club meets in Houston about an hour and a half from me. I am a bit surprised there is only one club in all of Houston (even Waco at a fraction of the size of Houston appears to have two clubs). I intend to make a meeting or two to make some connections and possibly find turners closer to me. In the mean time, I’ll be looking for instructors/classes in my area.
John, I am not against a road trip. Especially to the Knoxville area, I hear there is a lot of great hiking around there. Of course my “shop” is always open if you find yourself driving this way
Dave, thanks for the recommendation on the face shield. It is ordered and should arrive sometime this week.
As far as bench grinders go—I have my old Baldor low speed grinder that I used to use to sharpen my hoof knives back in my horse shoeing days, I assume with the right CBN wheel, it will do what I need as far as sharpening my turning tools? If not, any recommendations for a grinder/sharpening set up? My guess is any grinder will do as long as I have the right wheels on it and don’t let my tools overheat?
Thanks again to all. Your responses are appreciated.
Jeremy
I see 22 AAW chapters in Texas, are any close? https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturne...-Connects.aspx
I drive 40 minute to one club and an hour and a half to another club. Both are worth the drive.
You might contact the local cubs and ask for instructors/mentors. Some may live closer to you. Some of the stores that cater to woodworking also have turning classes, for example Woodcraft.
Your grinder should be fine. The "right" CBN wheel would be an enhancement but don't get in too much of a rush - the existing grinder will be fine to start.
I don't do this for money (and I LOVE visitors and teaching!) My only charge is a good story or a good joke. The shop has heat and air conditioning. I also raise baby peacocks and guineas in the back room so it might smell "funny".
My beginners classes are open to anyone (full covid vaccination is required these days). I prefer to teach one-on-one but with two lathes set up in the shop I can take two students if needed. I always teach the skew first since it is the simplest cutting tool with one straight edge. I believe it teaches well exactly what is needed to get the edge to make a perfect shaving. I've done this many dozens of times with people who have never seen a lathe and remedial instruction for experienced turners who had a bad experience and never touched the skew again.
With the teaching method I've developed I have NEVER had a student get a catch with a skew! After the skew we move to the spindle gouge then the roughing gouge. For a one-day course the second half is sometimes an introduction to bowl turning, depending on the student's interest. I keep a huge variety of turning wood on hand. Everyone one goes home with practice wood.
I have a large variety of tools available so I can show the pros and cons of different types and the student can try them out and see the difference. I keep all of the Thompson tools and all of the Hunter tools, both are my favorites, but I also have Sorby, Crown, and others including custom tools I make myself. I keep a box of old tools for students with no tools and no money.
I am a strong proponent of quality over quantity and variety over production.
I prefer to turn small things from dry wood but I'm no stranger to large bowls either. If you want to take a look at some past turnings, I have an album here with three pages of random turnings, mostly smaller things:
https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=862
I also teach bandsaw techniques to convert green wood into turning blanks to dry. MOST of the things I turn are from dry wood. Another album here with some turning wood, dry and drying in my shop.
https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=983
If you want to look it up I'm very close to Clinton TN, just off I-75
Teaching is one my favorite things in life. So far I've done turning demos in clubs in five states and taught many, many students one or two at a time.
For example these two vet students came for one day of lessons between vet classes. Neither had seen or touched a lathe before that day. In the morning we learned the skew and other spindle turning tools. In the afternoon we made a practice bowl and they both turned a bowl to take home. One has a lathe now and went on to become an amazing turner, the best beginner I've ever seen.
girls_masks_SMALL.jpg Girls_IMG_20150804_121948_936_lathes.jpg Girls_IMG_20150804_184250_898.jpg Girls_IMG_20150804_203606_bowls.jpg Kristina_wand_comp_IMG_7396.jpg Kristina_platter_working_comp.jpg Naomi_wand.jpg
This is my primary lathe:
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JKJ
Contributor
For good skew videos on YouTube I used Alan Lacer and Brian Havens. Both are excellent and I felt following their guidelines the skew was easy to pick up with a little practice. Be careful though. Many YouTube videos are not great quality or show poor technique/safety.
I started with $250 worth of carbide tools and the finish was so poor that I quickly switched to conventional and find them much more enjoyable and with a much better finish. I started with a single Thompson bowl gouge and used it for a couple months then bought a Thompson skew and then a D-Way spindle gouge. By slowly learning each tool it wasn’t too overwhelming (I am self taught but since then have moved and joined a club which is also very helpful). I also invested in the Wolverine jig with the varigrind attachment (not the varigrind 2) which made sharpening very easy.
good luck and enjoy the process!
tom
Contributor
John wish you were closer to Ft WAYNE ,Your class sounds awesome.
Member
If your baldor has 8" wheels, you can also look into a sharpening jig system. Most of us around here use the Oneway Wolverine setup, but there are many options now. Before I bought the wolverine sharpening system, I thought I could freehand sharpen, and soon realized that I would grind through a lot of steel figuring it out. Being able to use the jigs will help you be consistent and efficient with your sharpening, and you won't have to worry about if your tools are sharp or not.Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses.
Based on the feedback I’ve decided to put the almost $400 I was going to spend on carbide tools into conventional D Way or Thompson tools instead, starting with a few items from John’s list above. Based on the D Way and Thompson websites, I’ll be able to cross several of John’s suggestions off the list. However, I’ll have to wait to call in because I don’t understand the options (handles, quick change knobs, bushings, etc.) that I need/can get with whatever I intended to order. I’ll call them and let them educate me before I place my order.
The closet club meets in Houston about an hour and a half from me. I am a bit surprised there is only one club in all of Houston (even Waco at a fraction of the size of Houston appears to have two clubs). I intend to make a meeting or two to make some connections and possibly find turners closer to me. In the mean time, I’ll be looking for instructors/classes in my area.
John, I am not against a road trip. Especially to the Knoxville area, I hear there is a lot of great hiking around there. Of course my “shop” is always open if you find yourself driving this way
Dave, thanks for the recommendation on the face shield. It is ordered and should arrive sometime this week.
As far as bench grinders go—I have my old Baldor low speed grinder that I used to use to sharpen my hoof knives back in my horse shoeing days, I assume with the right CBN wheel, it will do what I need as far as sharpening my turning tools? If not, any recommendations for a grinder/sharpening set up? My guess is any grinder will do as long as I have the right wheels on it and don’t let my tools overheat?
Thanks again to all. Your responses are appreciated.
Jeremy
Have fun with your new lathe! I started with a harbor freight lathe and some easy wood tools carbide tools. I did eventually upgrade everything, but it took me time, and I still consider my earlier formative time valuable and instructive. I used carbide exclusively for years, and only the past couple years have gone with D-Way and Hunter tools, which I am exceptionally fond of. I still use my easy wood tools sparingly for very specific tasks, and I am still glad I have them around.
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