Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 thoughts?

[Rod Sheridan]

I have the B3 with the 48” crosscut capacity and the 32” rip capacity.

Mine has the outrigger with precision mitre indexing, dado capability, scoring saw and stock feeder, I also have the micro adjust on the rip fence.

You can custom order whatever suits you best, which is what I did…..Rod

[Steve Wurster]

I have the B3 with the 48” crosscut capacity and the 32” rip capacity.

Mine has the outrigger with precision mitre indexing, dado capability, scoring saw and stock feeder, I also have the micro adjust on the rip fence.

You can custom order whatever suits you best, which is what I did…..Rod

Ah, right, I forgot I have the micro adjust on the rip fence. However I didn't order it that way from the factory, as that would have slowed down the delivery process at that time. Instead, the techs in the nearest Felder office to me (i.e. Delaware) had the parts on hand and installed that for me after the unit arrived in their warehouse. I had to pay a labor charge for that, but figured that was easier than me trying to install it myself.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that is the "Comfort" option package: 79" sliding table, outrigger with Precision Indexing Mitre Bar (steel plate that has pre-drilled holes at all the common mitre angles), and scoring unit. Just like auto manufacturers, Felder offers certain option packages on this or that machine and sometimes there is a more aggressive factory discount on these packages.

Erik

The bundles are a good way to go for both Felder/Hammer and SCM, IMHO, as they are definitely more cost effective than acquiring "the stuff" a la carté. I know it's the only way I'd approach a purchase like this.

[Jacob Mac]

What's a good package? Must haves for a Hammer slider?

[Jesse Brown]

What's a good package? Must haves for a Hammer slider?

All personal opinion:

Couldn't live without: outrigger, fritz & franz, work hold-downs, outfeed support, extra crosscut stop, mobility kit
Nice to have, but not necessary: scoring blade, zero-clearance inserts, extra slider support
Bought it, never used it: edging shoe, offcut deflector thingy

Also, a long straightedge, feeler gauges, a dial indicator, and a big square are useful for setting everything up.

ETA thought of something else: I personally don't need the 48" rip fence capacity. I don't mind that I got it, but it's not necessary for the things I do.

[Patrick Kane]

I skimmed through the other responses--which have a lot more knowledge on the Hammer line and SCM equivalents--but i have a 79" Felder KF700, and id say its not the ideal saw for a one saw shop. The sliding support carriage needs to be longer to properly support the longer sliding table. An unfortunate side effect of this is you have a hunk of metal right in your crotch where you want to stand to conventionally rip material using the rip fence. No big deal, you will just rip off the sliding table, right? Sure, but 79" isnt that long to accommodate all your ripping needs. Conversely, its unusual that i crosscut anything wider than 48". This is where i think the 48" might have an advantage as a jack-of-all-trades, but it doesnt look like the outrigger and big boy crosscut fence come on the 48" version. I really like my Felder, and i think its a fantastic machine, but it annoyed me enough to go out and buy an Oliver 232 purely for ripping boards. My first few projects with the Felder blew my mind. I had the jessem sliding table before and an MFT, but the slider destroys both in capability and ease of use. I think ive had this 2004-2005 machine since 2016, and it still makes me happy when i use it. I really cant level any serious complaints or critiques against it--other than the sliding table isnt longer. However, maybe that is because i havent used either of the two vintage Martins in my garage yet.

[Jim Becker]

Patrick, I had that big structure on the S315WS I had in the old shop. I learned to rip "conventionally" quite effectively without having to stand behind the machine/material. Honestly, I'm nearly "shivering" being in the "line of fire" with the PCS I have in my temporary shop. I actually hate the conventional position for ripping after adjusting things for the slider over all those years and never being in the direct path of kickbacks.

[Patrick Kane]

In my experience with more powerful saws and kickbacks, it helps to be in a position of strength with the saw and the material. First, always have a splitter riving knife. On these euro machines, i cant see why you would ever remove the riving knife on a through cut. They are well designed and never in the way. Ok, with that out of the way kickbacks can still happen on rip cuts even with a riving knife. However, with a powerful saw(5hp+), as long as you dont let the material fly up on you, you can use the power of the saw to get through the tension that is clamping down on the back of the blade. Weaker saws are almost more dangerous in this instance, because they will stall or not get through the cut and therefore lift the material up more. I havent had a bad kickback on my felder, but the fact is you just have less control/power on the work piece standing on the operator side of a slider. I also hate the fact that im reaching over the blade to finish the rip cut. In my case, im reaching over the optional blade guard, which is huge. It covers maybe 4-5" to the right of the blade, and often rips are in that range requiring a pool cue motion with a push stick under the guard. After i sold my Powermatic 72 and before the Oliver 232, i found myself standing to the right of the Felder's rip fence. Its fine, its safe, but its awkward for a righty to be there. I may be in the wrong here, and im not professionally trained, but i stand about 8-10" to the left of the blade when ripping at a cabinet saw. As Jim mentions, this keeps your body out of 'the line of fire', but is a very natural and comfortable position of strength for a right-handed person to feed material through the sawblade while referencing the rip fence. I guess all i can say is this must be a personal preference thing, because its been discussed many times on this forum. Some guys have no issues using a saw that way, and some(me) hate it. Finally, you need to remove the crosscut fence/outrigger for longer rips. My saw is older and the design might have changed, but i end up pulling the entire outrigger and fence so that it doesnt mess up my fence's scale calibration. Its not the end of the world, but you are yanking a 75-90lb assembly to make a longer rip cut, and then putting it back on.

I dont want to dissuade you from the machine at all, they are great, but thats my take on a 79" machine. It is kind of no-man's land for practical woodworking applications. Look at all the old cast iron sliders. With very very few exceptions, they had a sliding table capacity of 32-40". You dont need anything greater for solid wood furniture making. On the other hand, 79" isnt enough capacity for contemporary sheet good processing. I can only assume it is hyper specific for shops sometimes using 5'x5' ply and not 5x10 or 4x8 sheets.

[Erik Loza]

This is an interesting part of the conversation. I was actually just in a shop yesterday, who is looking at a new slider for sheet goods. They also rip poplar for their face frame stock and asked how to do this on a slider. The conclusion we came to, based on their needs, was that it still made sense for them to have the slider, but that they also probably needed a separate SLR. It's really a matter of your personal workflow and expectations.

Erik

[David Stone (CT)]

It's interesting to read how people prioritize differently, based on what they do, space available, etc. My $0.02: I have a K3 with a 79 inch slider and an outrigger and think this is the optimal configuration for me as a hobbyist who often uses the saw to make stuff in connection with repairing my 175-year old house (=somewhat larger scale), as well as furniture and cabinetry and has a modest shop space. People tend to focus on slider length as being about the ability to maximize crosscut, especially a 4 foot panel of sheet goods, or, sometimes, do a long rip using the table instead of the rip fence. Obviously those are totally legit ways to look at it but, to me, mostly irrelevant. I don't have the shop space to readily manhandle a full sheet of ply onto my saw for crosscutting even though the saw specs would allow for it. And a table with enough stroke for ripping at significant lengths using F&F fixtures, parallel fences, pneumatic hold downs or whatever, is a totally different price point, build strength and space factor than a K3 or its competitors. That said, the advantages of the 79 inch table over the 48 inch for me are: (1) being able to use the table for long taper cuts or angle cuts on plywood parts (like kitchen cabinet corner units), functions that really eat up stroke; and (2) how, in ripping mode, the extra length functions as an outfield table, which is super handy since a fixed outfield table is not possible to the left of the blade, unlike a cabinet saw. Additionally, at least on my saw, the fixed portion of the sliding table only projects out from the front by about ten inches, so at 79 inches it is, in fact, still practical to stand in a comfortable position just to the left of the blade while using the rip fence, a big plus over longer tables, IMO.

[Warren Lake]

Riving knife is a good thing though never had one till now. Dont know where your kick backs are coming from. The entry level slider I have only has a small amount of bar extending forward so you can stand pretty much where you want. I think the maximum cross cut is 54 " The big sliders, anyone ive seen on them can look pretty uncomfortable trying to rip with the fence or even taking off cuts off the saw. When I get a full sized slider ill keep this smaller one as you can rip like on a cabinet saw only the saw is levels above those quality, power and feature wise.

[Jim Becker]

Warren, interestingly, I became quite comfortable ripping with the fence when necessary, despite standing in a different position. And now I'm uber-uncomfortable ripping on the cabinet saw I have in my temporary shop. Different strokes, pardon the expression.

[Warren Lake]

Ive seen lots of you tubes and you are doing yoga to rip conventional on a big slider. Stretched out and twisted. Then huge over the blade stuff in the way.

Im used to nothing above the table other than a blade granted that is not ideal. Now the addition of a riving knife is a novelty. I sort of feel like im cheating but its a good thing. Jim you get used to what you have, I had cabinet saws the old guys had cabinet saws in their at home shops and at work they had everything. This is slow, uncomfortable and clunky compared to ripping that on a cabinet saw.

Slow to get your offcut.

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[Christopher Charles]

That looks like a good time to be left handed.... (with a good feather board).

[Jim Becker]

Yes, doing "big rips" would certainly be less comfortable. But honestly, the only ripping I was doing using the fence was narrow stuff and not typically with any length. Bigger and wider was done on the wagon for both straight line and for parallel ripping using my buddies Fritz and Franz. . Now with a short stroke slider, there would be more "conventional" ripping, but the structure of a short stroke machine has less (or something nothing) in the way so it can be handled the same way as with a cabinet saw.