Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 thoughts?

[Jacob Mac]

I'm kicking around getting the Hammer K3 Winner 48x48 sliding table saw. Does anyone have one? Experience with it? Better options in the $5,000 price range? I suppose the Sawstop and the Minimax SC2 are probably the other contenders.

I'm tracking that used is always an option, just tough to count on, and harder to predict.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Stewart Lang]

I had a Grizzly G0623x and I absolutely loved it. Solid, easy to use, accurate. Never had any issues. I'd easily put it in the same category as Hammer/Minimax personally. About $1k less expensive. I wrote a review on here too somewhere..

[Jim Becker]

I think that Steve Wurster has that version, if I'm not mistaken. It's a nice machine from my observation. And yes, the SC-2 would be a comparable machine on the SCM side. I think these short stroke sliders are great...and can't wait to get a slider back in my shop. I'm currently using a SS PCS in my temporary shop and it's a fine tool, but I really, really, REALLY hate being back in the "line of fire" while cutting and dearly miss the true slider format. If a K3 or SC2 showed up on my doorstep, they wouldn't be refused, although I'd have to figure out how to rearrange things! (when I get a new shop building up, I'll "fix" things. )

[Lisa Starr]

I just purchased the SC2C as it was more available than the Hammer. I have a Hammer A3-31 and the fit and finish are comparable between the two machines. I've only started using the machine, but I love it already. I'm still learning how to approach some cuts, the squareness and accuracy is a huge step up from my big traditional table saw.

[Steve Wurster]

I think that Steve Wurster has that version, if I'm not mistaken.

I have the 79x48 version, so the sliding table on mine is a little over 2 feet longer than the 48x48 (which according to Derek actually has a 52" table). Mine also came with the outrigger and scoring blade, so I think they market that as the K3 Winner.

I love my saw, and I'm glad I went with the 79" table even though it's a slightly tight fit in my small basement shop. Allows me to more easily rip longer pieces.

The fit-and-finish of the saw is fantastic, and I never really considered getting any of the Grizzly offerings or even a SawStop. I knew I wanted a slider, and already being the owner of a Hammer A3-31 J/P meant I was leaning toward Hammer from the start.

[Howard Dean]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

[Jacques Gagnon]

Hello Howard,

Having recently acquired a machine with the same footprint (except it is a saw/spindle model) I went through the same analysis. My shop is 14x20 (I am a hobbyist) and my machines can be moved as required. Depending on the type of work you do, the 48 inch (1300mm) ripping width may not be often used. I nevertheless chose to go that route and do not regret it.

The elevated carriage (compared to the main cast iron surface) has been discussed a lot on this forum. The concern expressed about the possible effects of the height differential is in part resulting from looking at a slider and thinking along the lines of a cabinet saw. Most operations are carried out on the slider; the off cut falls to the right side of the blade.

If you absolutely need to work on the right side and are worried about the squareness of the edge, all you need to do is to cut your workpiece slightly wider than the desired finished measure (either with your track saw or on the carriage) and then rip on the right side of the blade. The off cut will be narrower than the space between the blade and carriage.

A comment you may receive is that the 78 inch (2000mm) carriage will not allow you ideal will long 8 foot panels, but you are already using a track saw.

Although I am still in the process of « unlearning », I really enjoy working with a slider. Easy, safe, efficient.

My 2 cents,

J.

[Steve Wurster]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

Howard,

The working area of my shop is about 16x24. Nearly all of the "big" tools are mobile, however I never move my K3, my floor-standing drill press, or my workbench. Due to space constraints pretty much everything stays against the walls and I have to move them into the "middle" in order to use them. This includes my router table, bandsaw, jointer/planer, drum sander, and spindle sander (on a cart). I have a separate cart on which I do most of my assembly and that pretty much just lives in the middle area. I frequently have to move it out of the way in order to use one of the mobile tools, or to avoid hitting it with the sliding table.

I have my K3 arranged so that the space to the right of it is just big enough to house my DC (wall mounted Oneida V-3000). That gives me plenty of room to the left of the blade, even with tools lined up against that left wall, so there are no issues there. If I pull the 79" sliding table all the way to the front then there is enough room for me to walk around the front of it, although it's a little tight because I have a big off-cut trash can and shop vac on the floor in that area. Because you have to put the table into this position to change the blade I have all of my blades (and most saw accessories) on the left wall for easy access (i.e., they are behind me when I'm changing blades). If I push the table all the way to the back then there is plenty of room for me to walk around the far end of it, although it's not a huge amount. I originally thought only the 48x48 would work in this shop, but I'm really glad I got the 79x48 instead.

As for the table being higher than the cast iron, I'm fine with that. As Jacques just recently posted, if it really bothers you then you can always make your first cut with the rip fence wider and then follow that up with a perfect 90 degree skim cut.

[Jacques Gagnon]

…clarification following Steve’s input. Although I can move my machine if required, my layout allows me to keep it on the same spot most of the time.

[Chris Parks]

If building a new shop I would try to arrange the floor level to be raised enough to run the dust extraction for the K3 under the floor. I put a debris trap directly onto the machine port to trap the small bits that get sucked in and the extraction goes through the floor of the trap into the under floor extraction pipe. I have no other under floor extraction, just the K3.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steve. What size shop do you have? I’m on the fence (no pun intended) between a 48x48 and a 79x48. My shop will be about 26x22. I currently do not have a shop (building a house that will have a shop). All of my tools are mobile — portable mft, track saws, routers, etc. I can use my track saws to break down sheet goods and to edge joint boards. I’ll probably built a large mft/router table once the shop is ready to have a second cutting station (my wife will also use the shop) and assembly table. So the question is Do I need a 79x48? I lean towards the larger stroke because it’s not that much more expensive than the 48x48 and will fit in my shop, albeit tightly. I would be interested in hearing your thought process. Also, I’m curious about how one goes about using the rip fence when the slider is slightly elevated from the table. I’ve seen at least one person lower the slider to be even with the table. The sales rep swears that the slight elevation of the slider does not impact squareness if the cut, which is counter-intuitive. I would be grateful for your views on this too.

Thanks,

Howard

Howard, I have a 48x31 Hammer K3. I do not cut sheet goods on it, working almost exclusively building furniture in hard woods. Like you, any ply would be cut down with a circular saw, if needed.

For my work, a 48x31 is perfect. Anyway it has to be as I lack space (half a double garage) for a longer slider. I do not need a wider outfeed. This saves on the footprint as well.

Old photo (seen by many here) …



Save more space by building a router table into the outfeed ..



When I first got the K3, I also obsessed about the 0.5mm extra height of the wagon. Gradually I learned to ignore it, especially finding that, in practice, it made no difference to squareness. Do the cut, then use your best square to find the light. I do not see it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Howard Dean]

Thanks Derek. Since you also work mostly in hardwoods, I’d be interested to know which saw blades you purchased with the the saw, or after the saw from an after-market dealer. Also, I like the idea of building a router table onto the outfeed. What did you use for the build, if I may ask?

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Derek. Since you also work mostly in hardwoods, I’d be interested to know which saw blades you purchased with the the saw, or after the saw from an after-market dealer. Also, I like the idea of building a router table onto the outfeed. What did you use for the build, if I may ask?

Howard, while it is tempting (for those who can) to continue to use 10" saw blades, there is an advantage in using good quality 12" blades. These will cut at the correct speed and offer a significantly greater depth of cut.

I purchased two blades for the K3 from another company, and Felder threw in a third with the saw. The blade they provided a 48-tooth combination blade by Stark, an Italian manufacturer. The two blades I purchased were a 28-tooth rip and a 96-tooth crosscut, both by Leuco.

Of importance, the blades are all 3.2mm wide, which matches the standard riving knife. This also means that the ZCI I made works with all the blades.

The Stark is an incredible blade and mostly lives on the K3.

Link for ZCI: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...mmerK3ZCI.html

There are articles on my website in regard to the K3 and other Hammer machines: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...ery/index.html

The router table build is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...Adventure.html

.. and here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...augeTrack.html

The aim of the router table was to build something of quality without too much outlay. I use one infrequently. The essential parts are an Elu 177e router (I like Elu and have a bunch of them), an aluminium insert plate, a Router Raizer lift, and a MuscleChuck. There are plans for the fence, which I built from scratch. I would argue that this compares well with set ups in the range of 3 or 4 times as much.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Howard Dean]

Many thanks Derek. I really appreciate you (and others) taking the time to provide very useful information. I mainly work with thicker lumber and am looking forward to using the 12” blade. I’ve seen some amazing reviews regarding the PC Saw Blade Silent-Power Diamond 12 “ blade. Very pricey ($590 US) but produces (according the reviews) phenomenal cuts and is purportedly 50% quieter than other blades. The Felder website “guarantees” no kickback. I’ll ponder the information over the weekend. I have two quotes to think about (79x48 and 48x48). I’m now leaning towards the latter, for reasons I’ve stated earlier (mainly work in hardwood, can edge joint using a track saw, can use a track saw to break down sheet goods, smaller shop size, and fully anticipate using the saw as a regular cabinet saw with cross cut capacity). Above all else I’m looking forward to having a shop again! Hauling portable tools out on the roof deck is a pain, especially when it’s cold. Last weekend I had to clear about a foot of snow off the deck and wear heated gloves. But I think the experience has made me a better wood worker. I’ve been making things for as long as I can remember. Had to take a hiatus for a couple of years due to a serious health issue. Then the pandemic reared its ugly head. I used the opportunity to really study wood, woodworking, hand tool usage, etc. Before, I just made stuff without really understanding theory and fundamentals — but I somehow managed to do pretty well. Always trying to learn ….

[Rod Sheridan]

The issue with 12” blades is that the scoring saw blade must be removed.

I have one 12” 48 tooth ATB that I use for deep cuts in solid wood, the remainder are 10” FSTools blades, work great and allow me to keep the scoring blade mounted…..Regards, Rod.