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Thread: Handplane courage

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Winners View Post

    (snip). I wonder if Rob Lee uses sandpaper. He has more or less unlimited access to NASA grade sharp plane irons.
    Sandpaper for me, unless scraped…..

    Cheers,

    Rob

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rainey View Post
    OK, Neanders, I admit, I used sand paper. I am making a dining room table and handplaned the top. Leveled with the jack, smoothed with a Clifton #3 Blade so gently sharpened to reduce edges...gossamer shavings, looking great. Used a scraper. I put a raking light on the top and I saw plane tracks. I probable shouldn't have done that, but I am putting on a glossy finish and I don't want any "defects". I probably have a lot to learn about using a fine smoother. BUT my question is this...has anyone posted a completed project over the past few years in the woodworking projects sub-forum using only handplanes ( and scrapers )? If so please reference it. Or when the project is close to complete do we get some anxiety and resort to sandpaper?
    What is the point of hiding how we did stuff? Are we not men, or are we machines?

  3. #33
    From my phone.

    I stopped using scrapers in 1976 when I realized that the surface was better before using the scraper. In 1978 I made a small box and sanded it with 400 paper. When I realized it was better before sanding, I went back and planed it again. That was the last time I sanded a flat surface.

    I use a double iron jack plane with the grain followed by a double iron beech try plane. As Robert mentioned, ending with full length strokes. I use a smooth plane just before gluing or finishing to clean up scuffs and marks. Usually just one pass.

    If sanding improves the surface, there is nothing wrong with that, but your planing could be improved.
    Last edited by Warren Mickley; 08-11-2021 at 4:48 PM.

  4. #34
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    If it looks too perfect, it looks machine made

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Buresh View Post
    If it looks too perfect, it looks machine made
    Ron Swanson wouldn't like it. https://youtu.be/H_NfvRX_LP0?t=111

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    From my phone.

    I stopped using scrapers in 1976 when I realized that the surface was better before using the scraper. In 1978 I made a small box and sanded it with 400 paper. When I realized it was better before sanding, I went back and planed it again. That was the last time I sanded a flat surface.

    I use a double iron jack plane with the grain followed by a double iron beech try plane. As Robert mentioned, ending with full length strokes. I use a smooth plane just before gluing or finishing to clean up scuffs and marks. Usually just one pass.

    If sanding improves the surface, there is nothing wrong with that, but your planing could be improved.
    Thanks for your expertise Warren. I am sure my planing could use some work.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bailey View Post
    Derek,

    Audiophiles everywhere need to know: What brand/model of turntable is going into that base?
    Joe, a way to go before this is done.

    I have owned this Thorens TD150 for 35 years. It is 10 years older than that.

    New spring suspension, 10mm acrylic arm board, 10mm acrylic base with IsaAcoustic feet, and a modified Rega RB300 arm complete this. I am waiting on a new perspex lid being custom made. I completed all the other mods. Herbie’s mat. Cartridge is either a Dynavector Ruby Karat or Supex Mk V. All these are some decades old!



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  8. #38
    She's a beauty, Derek-- thanks for the info.

    Believe it or not, my first two guesses were going to be Thorens or Empire.

    I just recently recapped the first Sony receiver I bought in '75 -- I'm running it with Polk Audio Monitor 7s and a Dual CS606 turntable.

  9. #39
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    Joe, I know the Dual to be a very capable turntable. I am not familiar with the Polk speakers, other than they have a very good reputation.

    Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but there is a relevant back story ...

    In 2010, I built an entertainment centre based on twin campaign chests (this was before Chris Schwartz began to popularise the style). The idea was to leave space for the hifi, like this ...



    But I made the error of showing my wife, Lynndy, what it could look like with added drawer fronts ....



    At that point she decided that twin chests were better than an entertainment centre, and that was it!

    The TV was sited on one, and my hifi system became reduced to CD and DVD. The turntable and other equipment were banished to another family room.

    Here you see it with one (of a pair) of Bowers & Wilkins DM 7 (mk 2) speakers. These are now 40 years old!




    Well, the years went by and the turntable was hardly used. Younger kids and big dogs with swishing tails were not conducive to turntables with expensive cartridges. Then, a couple of months ago, a good friend showed me his new turntable, and how he was delighting in re-discovering his old vinyl collection. This brought back such memories and desires. I decided to do the same.

    I had been out of the hifi scene for 30 years. Frankly, I am not interested in what audiophiles do, that is, listen to their systems rather than listen to the music. It is exactly like woodworking. Some purchase all the expensive tools and hang them on the wall, and this makes them feel good (all strength to their elbow). I appreciate and enjoy good tools, but at the end of the day I want to be building. In hifi I want to be listening. So I did a lot of research. It blew me away.

    In addition to re-building the Thorens - I discovered that I had good taste all those years ago, and had purchased really good stuff - the next change was to get new speakers. Lynndy hated my B&W coffins, and had nagged me for years to get something smaller. So I did - Kef LS50 Meta speakers on stands. Quite amazing for such small speakers. I plan to add the matching KC62 subwoofer in the near future. Their imaging is extraordinary.

    Now I needed to move the equipment off the cabinet. Time to add a matching stand. Again Jarrah ...



    New to me (but not to others) is streaming. I purchased a Cambridge Audio CXN (v2) streamer/DAC, have a subscription to Tidal (master disk recordings) and began ripping all my old CDs to FLAC files, which is stored on an old MacBook Pro. The amplifier is a 1990 Harman Kardon HK6500 (high current and high power). Still blows away modern stuff ...









    But it started with the turntable and its re-build. Here is the rear (minus the base and top plate) ..



    Still tuning the suspension ...



    The top plate was sanded back to aluminium and then clear coated ...



    This is definitely a thread/post for audiophiles, but it has been a fun project in the middle of a very cold winter here.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 08-12-2021 at 4:30 AM.

  10. #40
    But Derek, the REAL question is this: do you SAND or HANDPLANE your vinyl???

    I jest of course. I can talk about audio all day long. My entire adult life I’ve been self-employed as a producer/mixer. I’m a voting member of the Grammys and also serve on the Grammy Producer’s and Engineer’s committee.

    BTW – from the photo it looks like your right speaker might be generating SBIR. Make sure the distance from the woofer to the right wall is different than the distance from the woofer to the rear wall. They look like they might be pretty close. Weather you can hear this (or even care!!) is questionable; particularly given the asymmetry of the system (and corner location of any speaker). But if you hear excessive funkiness in the low end, simply slide everything over so that distances are different and you will likely hear a noticeable improvement (but not so much that one of those distances is the same as the woofer to the floor distance!). Of course, this is a living environment so aesthetics and comfort should always win out. But given the money invested in some of that playback equipment, it would likely be worth it to try to maximize the quality of playback within the confines of a living environment as much as reasonably possible.

  11. #41
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    Chris, I have heard of some who clean their vinyl with wood glue?! I suppose it is intended to come off as a dry sheet???

    With regards sound waves bouncing off the walls, I am conscious of this. Our living room is not a great environment for hifi insofar as it is a large, open-planned space surrounded by floor-to-ceiling glass walls. I have tried to have as much space around both speakers as possible, but obviously this is different for each speaker, with the right side closer to a wall, and the left along an open space. These Kef LS50 Metas work best out in the open, and firing straight on. No toe in. However, I have given the right speaker a few degrees of toe in, and this makes a positive difference.

    I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do appreciate the comments and opportunity to share the woodwork in a hifi system.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    Ron Swanson wouldn't like it. https://youtu.be/H_NfvRX_LP0?t=111
    Rafael, the video is hilarious!

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Chris, I have heard of some who clean their vinyl with wood glue?! I suppose it is intended to come off as a dry sheet???
    It’s an extreme measure, a last resort, perhaps for those people who are unwilling to invest in an ultrasonic cleaning system (either commercial or home brew.)

    OB woodworking, you of course know that you can construct cartridges out of wood, and this is an eastern delicacy. High dollar stuff.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Joe, I know the Dual to be a very capable turntable. I am not familiar with the Polk speakers, other than they have a very good reputation.

    Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but there is a relevant back story ...

    In 2010, I built an entertainment centre based on twin campaign chests (this was before Chris Schwartz began to popularise the style). The idea was to leave space for the hifi, like this ...



    But I made the error of showing my wife, Lynndy, what it could look like with added drawer fronts ....



    At that point she decided that twin chests were better than an entertainment centre, and that was it!

    The TV was sited on one, and my hifi system became reduced to CD and DVD. The turntable and other equipment were banished to another family room.

    Here you see it with one (of a pair) of Bowers & Wilkins DM 7 (mk 2) speakers. These are now 40 years old!




    Well, the years went by and the turntable was hardly used. Younger kids and big dogs with swishing tails were not conducive to turntables with expensive cartridges. Then, a couple of months ago, a good friend showed me his new turntable, and how he was delighting in re-discovering his old vinyl collection. This brought back such memories and desires. I decided to do the same.

    I had been out of the hifi scene for 30 years. Frankly, I am not interested in what audiophiles do, that is, listen to their systems rather than listen to the music. It is exactly like woodworking. Some purchase all the expensive tools and hang them on the wall, and this makes them feel good (all strength to their elbow). I appreciate and enjoy good tools, but at the end of the day I want to be building. In hifi I want to be listening. So I did a lot of research. It blew me away.

    In addition to re-building the Thorens - I discovered that I had good taste all those years ago, and had purchased really good stuff - the next change was to get new speakers. Lynndy hated my B&W coffins, and had nagged me for years to get something smaller. So I did - Kef LS50 Meta speakers on stands. Quite amazing for such small speakers. I plan to add the matching KC62 subwoofer in the near future. Their imaging is extraordinary.

    Now I needed to move the equipment off the cabinet. Time to add a matching stand. Again Jarrah ...



    New to me (but not to others) is streaming. I purchased a Cambridge Audio CXN (v2) streamer/DAC, have a subscription to Tidal (master disk recordings) and began ripping all my old CDs to FLAC files, which is stored on an old MacBook Pro. The amplifier is a 1990 Harman Kardon HK6500 (high current and high power). Still blows away modern stuff ...









    But it started with the turntable and its re-build. Here is the rear (minus the base and top plate) ..



    Still tuning the suspension ...



    The top plate was sanded back to aluminium and then clear coated ...



    This is definitely a thread/post for audiophiles, but it has been a fun project in the middle of a very cold winter here.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Wooooo daddy like! Okay that does it – I want to make my own turntable! I did know that was a thing you could do – but of course Derek is on it! I'm currently running an alldigital system with CAPS4 , (Computer Audio Pocket Server) optimized for audio playback , with Red Wine battery power source into a Bryson D/A converter. I love the convenience of playing lossless FLAC files using J River media systems app on my phone is remote. That said, I'm dying to spin some vinyl. That said odds that I will invest the time to figure out/acquire/assemble the necessary components (tone arm, cartridge, turntable mechanism etc.) are realistically play pretty slim.

    I was recently helping to clean out my Dad's garage and I found the box for a Bang and Olufsen, Beogram turntable – has two "tone arm" that can generally track across the disk with early optical sensor technology. This was my first college student loan purchase in 1978. Sadly dad kept box but threw out the turntable – Arghhhh! Derek, you do have good taste in audio components – those old HK amplifiers are rock solid and sound great IMHO.

    Thanks to the OP for sanding question. This is an issue I've always struggled with, I think due to my self perceived Krenovian mysticism around the quality of a hand planed finish. FWIW, I will evolve to hand plane, card scraper for those small/shallow/reverse ingrained spots and 400 grit in an orbital sander. It feels like cheating, but to my eyes, produces a more uniform surface. YMMV

    Cheers, Mike

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Allen1010 View Post
    Wooooo daddy like! Okay that does it – I want to make my own turntable! I did know that was a thing you could do – but of course Derek is on it! I'm currently running an alldigital system with CAPS4 , (Computer Audio Pocket Server) optimized for audio playback , with Red Wine battery power source into a Bryson D/A converter. I love the convenience of playing lossless FLAC files using J River media systems app on my phone is remote. That said, I'm dying to spin some vinyl. That said odds that I will invest the time to figure out/acquire/assemble the necessary components (tone arm, cartridge, turntable mechanism etc.) are realistically play pretty slim.

    I was recently helping to clean out my Dad's garage and I found the box for a Bang and Olufsen, Beogram turntable – has two "tone arm" that can generally track across the disk with early optical sensor technology. This was my first college student loan purchase in 1978. Sadly dad kept box but threw out the turntable – Arghhhh! Derek, you do have good taste in audio components – those old HK amplifiers are rock solid and sound great IMHO.

    Thanks to the OP for sanding question. This is an issue I've always struggled with, I think due to my self perceived Krenovian mysticism around the quality of a hand planed finish. FWIW, I will evolve to hand plane, card scraper for those small/shallow/reverse ingrained spots and 400 grit in an orbital sander. It feels like cheating, but to my eyes, produces a more uniform surface. YMMV

    Cheers, Mike
    Mike, see here is another reason I shall be visiting you one of these Covid-past days. Your system sounds so interesting. My turntable should be completed this weekend, enough to finish tuning the suspension, then connect up and play. I have a few hundred albums to re-discover. At present, in addition to the ripped CDs (using the XLD app), I am listening to streamed digital music via Tidal courtesy of the Cambridge Audio CXN 2. Much of this is better than lossless FLAC! Direct off the master tapes. Impressive. 7 million albums to choose from.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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