What's the Best Long Bed Jointer, old or new?

[Patrick Kane]

There is no reason not to have support in and out whatever you need and a rule based on no support is rules are made to be broken. Then who made the rule, salesman, manufacturer. cabinetmaker?

Glad ive never heard that before or it would have stopped me from jointing long stock. The biggest reason the big jointer here is better than the general is the mass the machine has and what comes along with that package (larger cutter head and )

I could have still made a living on the 8" general. I didnt use wide boards or live edge stuff. Usually widths no more than approx 7" for table tops and more likely 6.5" or so as the max. That all works fine on an 8" jointer. I dont remember any one or not many if anyone making large board stuff back when I started. it wasnt a thing.

Your source for lumber must be disappointing. Thats a lot of narrow boards for a table top! I love wide stock--whether its dimensional or live edge.

Exactly, rules and norms are what they are, and can always have exceptions. You are an example of a craftsman pushing a machine beyond its intended design. I commend your efforts, but also ask, "should you?". Is that the best use of your time and capital to modify machines to make them do something they werent designed to do in the first place? Also, im sure your infeed support is well thought out and built, but its not planed/ground cast iron. I need to go back and reread the OP's first post, but if this is for profit, then i dont think a "longbed" 8" machine is the correct answer. If he only has one of these projects, then yes, he should boot-strap it like you and get acceptable results and move on. I havent needed to do it before, but a track saw with a ripping blade and a long track might be the most cost effective solution too. I have a TS75 and long tracks, but i havent used them as a glueline rip yet. I cant personally attest to the results from this process.

[Ben Sherwyn]

Go to a 12" Oliver 166 with 96" length, Northfield HD , or Porter 300. All are old cast iron but with used you can verify the tables are flat. I have a DJ20 and while a decent machine, the tables are not as flat as my Oliver 166 or Porter. 12" doesn't take up much more room. 2500-3000 buys a very good condition machine and a vfd costs another 400. Dave

Thanks David... I'm definitely considering these options if one comes up near me (I'm in Milwaukee, WI).

[Ben Sherwyn]

I'll keep my eyes out for a Newman too

[Ben Sherwyn]

More information would be helpful. Do you have access to 3 phase power? Do you have a budget? Do you mind working on a used tool? Where's it going, as in is this a basement shop with a narrow entrance? Do you have a budget? As for what you listed I have a PJ-882HH (which is about the size of the Grizzly you listed). Since I move it around my shop old classic iron was limited to lighter machines, not the good massive chunks of iron that I would love to have. Also few old machines come up for sale around here.

My Powermatic is a pretty good jointer. The fence and tables are very flat (less than .0015" over a 24" span). The parallelogram adjustments work very well making setting it up and fine tuning easy. About the only complaint I have is the fence has a plastic insert where the cutter head is. It's not exactly flush to the fence so when jointing the face of a board if the edge against the fence has a curve it'll can catch. It's minor but for my technique for jointing it does bother me. Since it's right at the cutter head so the board is just starting to be fed into the cutter I'm not putting much down pressure on the board face yet. So trying to slide the board away from the fence just as I'm about to start getting into a rhythm bothered me enough to shim it flush.

I currently could run 3 phase with VFD, but am looking to move to a shop with 3 phase power before long. I rent a dedicated shop (not a basement shop) I certainly don't mind working with old tools... Many of my machines are vintage and I appreciate the high quality I can get for the price, albeit sometimes with the help of a local machine shop. I'll need to wrap my head around how to move such a big piece of equipment, but the idea of going larger as many people are suggesting here is exciting to me.

[Ben Sherwyn]

That Oliver is certainly a beautiful jointer. Is that a 16"?

[Ben Sherwyn]

Prior to this post, I was intimidated by the size and weight of some of the bigger jointers... But after learning more and seeing some prices out there, having a jointer with more mass would be pretty great and most likely doable for me. An old Oliver or Porter, or a number of the models that have been mentioned in this thread would be quite something to own. I am thinking about moving shops soon, perhaps I should do that first so I would have to move one of these things twice!

[Jared Sankovich]

Prior to this post, I was intimidated by the size and weight of some of the bigger jointers... But after learning more and seeing some prices out there, having a jointer with more mass would be pretty great and most likely doable for me. An old Oliver or Porter, or a number of the models that have been mentioned in this thread would be quite something to own. I am thinking about moving shops soon, perhaps I should do that first so I would have to move one of these things twice!

I was sure a 16" was more than I wanted, in fact I passed up a 12" crescent a few months before I ended up with my newman. Size and weight is a benefit you need to experience first hand to truly appreciate. The large diameter of the cutterhead also makes a tangible difference.
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[Andrew Hughes]

My experience with jointing long boards is the length of the beds is a plus but only if they are reasonably flat. For instance my machine has very flat tables. I have one spot I can slip a 2 thou. Shim under a 36 inch precision straight edge.
I challenged myself on some white pine some years ago. First I ripped a 12ft x 13+wide board in half faced each side and jointed the edges. Layer them together on my bench to inspect the joint in good light.
I was satisfied white woods will show any gaps. I do remember the boards were light and easy to manage.
Wider then my jointers head isn’t really a issue for me.

[Charles Coolidge]

Ben, you seem to have settled on 8 inch jointers. A good choice in my experience.

I recommend:
1) Helical Segmented cutter head. I like the Byrd Shelix because it is good quality and replacement blades are lower cost than others
2) Parallelogram table mechanism. Found this keeps tables co-planer without adjustment over 30 years of use on my Makita 2020 jointer
3) Long bed, for reasons you mention.

The Powermatic 60HH satisfies all of the above.

Here is the USA price of a pack of 10 replacement carbide cutters for various manufacturers heads:
These may not be the best price for each , but it does show quite a range.

$35 - Byrd Shelix (I think this is standard on Powermatic with helical head)
$50 - Grizzly
$60 - Laguna
$100 - Rikon

Powermatic now uses Asian knock off helical cutter heads, Byrd's are no longer used just fyi.

[Warren Lake]

No Patrick. The hardest part for me is getting good stock and ive hand picked for 40 years. The hard part is conditioning companies to do that. If I make a top its as close to veneer in consistency as it could be. Centered hearts grains close all joined on straight edge grain flowing from one board to another. Non of the cabinetmakers I knew did wide stuff. In the mass produced or semi custom stuff there is usually very little care into the material its order and layout. I buy material to best do the job based on what it is,. on one that was 9 and wider cherry to end up just over 9, boards were 16 feet long so all on the project was cut from one board

The extreme of that is the Doucette and wolf guy where he is hand picking from a sequenced log and doing the best match and also doing the sides and other parts from one board. Very few build like he does that but its the best it could be. Ive gone to those mills in the US before. Ive also had one company here send me to one of their mills in the US and let me pick on the line and then sent it up here for me to pick up from there business. He knew who picky I was and im sure ive been grief for them but that saying about a sows ear and silk purse its hogwash just a saying that doesnt ad up if you use logic. Ive had calls in the past like we have three lifts of birdseye you can come in and pick what you want. I do leave with 40 or 50 boards and have that for jobs for years. Last time I used birdseye I looked at buying it to not draw from my stock but i had way better stuff than the supplier.

If you buy the best grade whatever name they want to call it and i go through a lift on average likely about 20 percent is what I end up with.

using logic to support material on the infeed and outfeed is not pushing a machine beyond its design. I could have jointed all that material twice the 14-16 foot stuff likely 20 boards each time on the general as well if it had support. The thing I dont like aboiut the general is its liight and I dont like the feel of pushing stuff across light machines. carpenters use those small onsite saws. Ive been in places and used them maybe four times and I hate all of them. They are too light to me to do the work how I feed. Minimum if I was an on site guy id have a 10" general saw but dont have interest in on site work when there is a shop of machinery.

Patrick I have the same jointer you have, the SCM smaller one worked fine with suport. All that long stuff was done on the SCM and it could have been done on the general as well, it was 8" presized rough material. More so if I used the griggio with the 105 bed or whatever it is would make zero difference over the SCM on 14-16 foot material, It still needs infeed and outfeed support to do that.

[Joe Jensen]

The best? Get a Martin T54.

Yes, that is IMHO the best new available. But like $27,000

[Kevin Jenness]

As a client's wife said of a $50k change order, "Oh come on Bill, it's just a one time expense."

[Jim Becker]

As a client's wife said of a $50k change order, "Oh come on Bill, it's just a one time expense."

I'm kinda using the same rationalization for my future new shop building... LOL

[Warren Lake]

Not my style, I like old cars. If I was going to do that id pass on a new one and buy an old Martin in good shape then a gaggle of other good used european machines with what was left over.

[Mark Hennebury]

My general rule of thumb (in a perfect world) is; A jointer infeed table should be as long as the longest board that you will dress. and the out feed should be at least half that length. But that's just me. Oh, and it should have a vertical head also for perfect 90°

this Gubisch one is close

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