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Thread: SCMI SI12 short stroke sliding table saw - any owners here?

  1. #46
    I came across this thread on OWWM from several years back and it gave me a bit of pause...anybody have anything to say or add regarding these findings? Wondering is this affliction is universal or only specific to saws with overly worn bearings and how to remedy the problem if the sliding table bearings are unobtanium.

    https://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=127894&start=30

    Some excerpts for those not wanting to click a link:

    ——————

    I've been trying to get the sliding table adjusted properly. I have the manual and have been following the directions but am having a heck of a time getting consistent travel along the entire length of the slider. Because this is not a new saw, I'm worried something might be damaged. Hopefully, it's just my incompetence. Any hints?

    No worries, that saw has a design flaw in the bearing setup. There needs to be an extra set of bearings for the table to travel on, so when the slider is pulled to either extreme, there is excessive slop in the table.
    ...
    I'm just a noob with table saws in general, let alone sliders, but that seems like a pretty major design flaw. Isn't one of the big advantages of the style to be able to make very accurate, repeatable cross-cuts? Is there any was to do a fix or work-around? Or is it not such a big deal?
    ...
    You'd think SCMi would've noticed that, but they may have missed it. I think making sure all your bearings are aligned properly on all axes should minimalize the issue. If you keep it riding on all three bearings, you will be fine, it's the extremes that cause problems.
    ...
    I've got most of the slop out by very carefully aligning the bearings. Just a bit at the extremes as Sal mentioned.

    The slider is parallel to the main table but the main and miter slot are not parallel to the blade. I've aligned a table with blade on a Unisaw but of course it's much lighter. Should I use the same technique (loosen bolts, tap/pound table into parallel with blade)


    Still waters run deep.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    I came across this thread on OWWM from several years back and it gave me a bit of pause...anybody have anything to say or add regarding these findings? Wondering is this affliction is universal or only specific to saws with overly worn bearings and how to remedy the problem if the sliding table bearings are unobtanium.

    https://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=127894&start=30

    Some excerpts for those not wanting to click a link:

    ——————
    I've been trying to get the sliding table adjusted properly. I have the manual and have been following the directions but am having a heck of a time getting consistent travel along the entire length of the slider. Because this is not a new saw, I'm worried something might be damaged. Hopefully, it's just my incompetence. Any hints?

    No worries, that saw has a design flaw in the bearing setup. There needs to be an extra set of bearings for the table to travel on, so when the slider is pulled to either extreme, there is excessive slop in the table.
    ...
    I'm just a noob with table saws in general, let alone sliders, but that seems like a pretty major design flaw. Isn't one of the big advantages of the style



    So that’s the risk in buying an old slider like this, I am sure there are a few out there that are fine but most of those sliders were used in commercial shops not by a hobbyist so they need to be checked over. If I was considering one of these old saws I would need to look at it in person which would eliminate a lot of concern.
    Totally not against old equipment just would need to inspect in person. As fate would have it I ended up with new after having equipment 30ish years leftover from my business. Because of the issues i had with my k700 I ended up with the k940, if I had known I was going to spend that much money i would have been looking at used Martin like joes t17 or perhaps an Altendorf…

    As far as the slider goes, if the parts are no longer available then you will need to have them fabricated (obviously), a quick check of what’s going on with the slide could be setting up a dial gauge on the cast and reference off the slide and moving it fore and aft to see the deviation. There could be a challenge in that that being an old saw the edge of the slider that you would be referencing off of may be chewed, banged up in that case maybe a straight edge of some sort clamped to the table or the t-slot in the top (however the t-slot is probably not precision milled but could still give you an indication of what is going on) I would also wipe the ways down because it’s one of the things most don’t do and might not be as bad as it sounds without cleaning.

    I don’t know about ball bearing sliders but on the older Altendorfs with the phenolic ways you could see a deviation in a short area it it was used mostly for narrow pieces for example. Your not looking at old altendorfs but i was as there was one local and I personally would not by one with phenolic ways without personally checking it like I described above, my understanding is that it is that the phenolic ways are not field replaceable to any degree of accuracy and for me the whole point of a slider (well on anyways) is for it to be dead nuts…. i think at one point you were able to send the slider extrusion back to Germany for a rebuild - imagine the cost for that!
    Last edited by Mark e Kessler; 08-02-2021 at 9:35 AM.

  3. #48
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    In my experience, lateral play in old cast iron sliders is the weak link in some machines. I don't know what the SI15 system is but bearings that travel some with the table seem to hold alignment better than stationary bearings where one ceases to be engaged at either end. The upside is that I have not noticed that to be as big a problem as I expected in use. I think the mass of the table tends to keep it tracking if the bearings are aligned so there is no hitch when the outer ones are engaged.

    An alternative since you have a second saw for ripping is an 80" slider. they are unloved ( rightfully so ) as they are inconvenient as a stand alone machine so they tend to be better priced on the used market. I have a Knapp 80" and while it is my least favorite size, I use it as a short stroke with my other saws and leave the crosscut fence on. The only thing it lacks vs the 50" is you lose some space. Dave

  4. #49
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    No experience on the old cast iron patternmakers sliders, but I had heard the same thing about play in the tables. How is the Robinson in that respect Dave? I also prefer the Euro fences that slide fore and aft. I’m sure the rack and pinion fences are stout but seem unhandy for woodworking. The ball bearing fence on the T17 is probably the best feature of this saw.
    The T17 has top and bottom V ways with bearings with excentric adjustment so a saw or shaper with this type beam should last indefinitely. Shapers now have linear bearings here and more precise but probably not the longevity of the old type. The downside of the T17 type on sliding saws is the beam can be adjusted back and fourth to get the full stroke of the table or to have a shorter stroke with no protrusion of the beam. This gives flexibility but the beam is so heavy it’s difficult to move singlehanded. I made a fixture for my pallet jack to adjust it but still unhandy. If you are cutting much sheet goods the fixed beam table like on the SCM and Altendorf would be better. In Later years Martin, Panhans and some of the others got away from the beam on sliding saws.
    Last edited by Joe Calhoon; 08-02-2021 at 1:08 PM.

  5. #50
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    Of my three old iron sliders, the Robinson has the best system although it doesn't use bearings. I put an AL extrusion on my old saws to mimic the newer rip fence design. The fence on the whitney is most stout and I'm used to moving it into the proper holes so no big deal. Works well with a feeder as the pressure is directed between the supports. The PK and Robinson depend on a single T slot for the rip fence so the keys need to be just right.DSCN3963.jpgDSCN3687.jpgDSCN3553.jpg Dave

  6. #51
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    Did you settle on a saw? There is a 12" that is on the Chicago CL currently.

  7. #52
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    https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...2?bof=RpIyGdLS

    This came up locally... looks in great condition. starting bid $700 USD.

    Only if I had the space

  8. #53
    Ronald, thanks for updating the thread. I bought the SI-15F that is pictured earlier in this thread. It arrived unscathed via freight this afternoon at a local shop close by that I have occasional forklift / storage access to. I was planning on hauling it home and moving it on today, but the tropical storm rains have overtaken us and it will have to wait for a clear day.

    I did get the chance to look the saw over a bit this afternoon after it arrived. I’ve seen videos of it under power but not yet fired it up myself. There does not seem to be any appreciable slop in the tables even at either extreme of the stroke. Everything glides well and feels tight side to side. There is a a good bit of mass and momentum accompanying the cast iron sliding table.

    I will post some photos and update once I get the saw moved into my shop and in place.

    I just looked at the saw on the Chicago CL and it looks to be in very nice condition and a reasonable price, though I paid roughly half of that asking price for this SI-15F which helps the cause.
    Still waters run deep.

  9. #54
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    Congratulations on your acquisition. I look forward to the photos as you update us.

  10. #55
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    Congrats, Phillip! 'Looking forward to you getting that beast up and running!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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