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Thread: SCMI SI12 short stroke sliding table saw - any owners here?

  1. #16
    THere are a number of models of those saws or least least different model numbers of the 12, 15 and 16 with different letters that followed. Ive seen them for years at auctions.

    Likely they all weigh the same (1,300 lbs) without looking it up, some older ones like the Beige one below maybe more. In any of the shop auctions I saw the machines were plug and play. Reason is european shops 10-50-80 employees stuff was cared for. Here is one example of many. Mostly all were two tone green and different numbers and letters. have seen 9 HP on a number of them.

    P1190056A.jpg
    Last edited by Warren Lake; 07-29-2021 at 3:14 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    Phillip, from a guy who is in shops all the time, I must disagree with that statement. In my experience, shops who are serious about making a living are far better off buying a new machine. I don't mean this to sound disrespectful but EVERY customer I have ever met who gives the whole, "I'm just going to hold out for that perfect used machine" has one thing in common: They never find it. To the contrary, this mentality actually holds you back from business standpoint. No sales schtick: Just being honest. If someone wants a vintage machine because they want a vintage machine, that's one thing but making it a business plan to wait for the perfect used machine is a good way to not move forward professionally (who was that guy here who found his perfect used martin slider, then had basically a year-long thread about trying to actually get it running and usable? Didn't he "buy it for business"). Again, no disrespect intended. Just my observations. I hope this all makes sense.

    Erik
    Personally, I’d rather put a few evenings into a good used piece of equipment then buy new. Heck, I’ve had to fix all of the machines in shop at one point or another anyways.

    Personally, I’m happy to do so becuase then I know what’s in the machine and I know how to break it down for repairs when the time comes. Everything needs repair work eventually..,


    Patrick’s saw was a restoration, totally different math than a simple repair what’s broken, replace what’s worn, renovation. And that said, that saw is a workhorse now and for a heck of a lot cheaper than a new Martin. And no, he did not buy it for business. He ended up working from home because his home workshop was much more capable than the shop he was working in.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 07-29-2021 at 9:56 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #18
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    Brian, I understand where you guys come from. the joy of repairing and restoring, but what about the time involved? do you need to have two panel saw because one is being worked on and the other one is a functional panel saw to do the daily business/cuts? I cant imagine having two panel saws in a workshop. the room it takes. etc.

  4. #19
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    Albert, that's a very good point. There has to be a balance struck that's workable for the individual. Some folks can take on a major project like Patrick's that was previously referenced and others barely have time to uncrate a new tool and take off the cosmoline. Somewhere between those two things is where most people live. Some folks enjoy doing the work and have skilz, too...Brian's an example of that for sure. While I'm not personally enamored by working on machines, I'm able and willing to do enough of that to be "dangerous" if need be. I still like "shiny new" most of time it seems, however. But that's me. I think that the OP has a good idea about where his balance point is around the level of effort he's willing to put forth to get a beefy, older machine up and running for his shop at what's hopefully a reasonable cost...as well as the time frame he's willing to wait to find what he's looking for. I did ask him that earlier in the thread. If "the one" doesn't come along, then it will be interesting to see what the alternative happens to be. There are only so many "diamonds in the rough" out there when looking for a very specific make/model for sure.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #20
    Thereís not always joy in repairing or restoring but there is typically satisfaction and knowledge gained in the process that only helps you as time goes on. I donít love restoring machines and as such, typically only get a machine to the point of functioning properly / accurately and leave the cosmetics alone simply because I donít have the time to put towards that end of the spectrum at this point in my life. I can certainly enjoy and appreciate it when others do that to their machines and want to share it.

    Regarding the time it takes to find and acquire specific used machinery - I would say all of my machines (except my Oliver jointer, which was almost in my backyard and fell into my lap way more than any other machine...) have come to me through a process of assessing needed specs/level of quality/budget and waiting anywhere from a month to several months and in one case over a year for the right machine to pop up within the right parameters. Iím ok with this and not typically putting myself in a position where I will suffer greatly from not having the machine I seek. A sliding saw will help me, change my workflow and improve efficiency and accuracy, but I will get along just fine in the meantime if it takes several months to find a suitor. You may have gathered this, but I donít buy many big ticket items that are new and typically spend considerable time and energy to maximize my budget with strategic used purchase. Different strokes for different folks.

    This has been a good discussion so far on the differences of how folks approach purchases, business, etc.
    Still waters run deep.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Lee View Post
    Brian, I understand where you guys come from. the joy of repairing and restoring, but what about the time involved? do you need to have two panel saw because one is being worked on and the other one is a functional panel saw to do the daily business/cuts? I cant imagine having two panel saws in a workshop. the room it takes. etc.
    Albert, this comes down to the value of your time. If I can spend considerably less on
    a good machine and turn it into a critical piece of machinery in few hours or days, and it saves me the same or more as my hourly rate than it is financially worth it.

    It’s sometimes a wash, often works in my favor, and I get the machinery I want rather then settling for a new machine which doesn’t check all the boxes for me or costs a premium plus shipping/tax.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #22
    I have located an older SCM / Rockwell SI 15F sliding saw in what appears to be nice condition with all original fences, stops, etc for what seems to be a nice price, though I would need to get it freighted to me and itís too far from me to go and inspect prior to purchase. I am awaiting videos of the saw running, table sliding, blade tilting, etc.

    It looks identical to the photo Warren posted above, though I may post some photos of it here in this thread for reference / feedback. This saw a little larger / heavier / older than the SI 12, but does have a crosscut capacity of right around ~51Ē from what Iím told, which should be perfect for crosscutting a sheet stock. Doing some measuring and math now to see if its dimensions vary much from the SI 12, but I think it will squeeze in my space.

    I own 2 other SCM Líinvincibile machines (planer and shaper) from this same era, well mine are a little older than this saw, but they are built like tanks and Iím comfortable with this era of machine, as crude as it may seem compared to todayís circuit boarded machines.

    I suppose Iím posting this to elicit any feedback specific to this saw and any potential major drawbacks in design or practical use. I work just as much or more with solid wood/joinery as sheet goods. Not sure if this saw has dado capability or not.

    One thing Iím seeing is the sliding table is not right beside the blade but instead there is about 8Ē of fixed table between blade and sliding table. Not sure how much difference that makes in practice. I also see that for some reason the crosscut fence was cut at around 4Ē away from the blade, but Iím led to believe that the fence can loosened and slide left to right, which would obviously require a new measuring scale to be applied.

    The previous owner had the saw in a location with 480V incoming, hence the transformers, but it is a 230V (3 phase) motor.
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 07-30-2021 at 4:03 PM.
    Still waters run deep.

  8. #23
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    I believe that crosscut fence is similar to later models in that it is mounted with T nut in bottom of extrusion into an eccentric bushing in the outrigger. The rip fence is the same as what SCm used for the sliding table on their NPS shaper. I don't know if there was another type available. The distance to the blade is only a factor for short cut offs but that is no big deal.

    While I understand that old machines can be a rabbit hole, I see enough posts about problems with new that I'm not convinced old is necessarily a lot more work than new. Unless you are buying the really high end stuff, the build difference is significant enough that working on old machines spoils you with the quality available. I recently bought a like new few year old Sharp Milling machine. 35K new. It sits next to the Rambaudi mill I have about half of my sharp cost in. The Sharp is one of their better machines and very nice but everything about it is cost reduced in comparison to the old Rambaudi. I feel the same way about my old saws. They are still better machines at 75 years old than anything I can buy for less than 15-20K. Makes it hard to enjoy the new stuff although I completely understand the benefit when in business. Dave

  9. #24
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    Phillip, the SI 15 will be more of a saw than the 12. Probably just a little bigger and heavier. My T17 has the sliding table away from the blade. There are probably more advantages to have it next to the blade but 2 good things about away from the blade is the ability to quickly install shaper cutters or groovers on the arbor and sometimes it’s nice to have a same level of table both sides of the blade. The sliding table raised slightly above the cast table can sometimes be a drawback on fine joinery cuts. As Dave mentions for shorter work next to the blade is better.

    total restoration is involved and time consuming but a machine like you are looking at should not be difficult to get into service. At one time I was looking at rebuilt window machines from a company in Germany, Engelfried that specializes in this. He takes the old machines apart, cleaning, fixing and changing new bearings and sometimes updating electronics. I asked him why he didn’t paint the machines? He said it was not economically feasible and would put the cost up too high to be worthwhile.

  10. #25
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    Looks like the sliding table is cast Iron. Another advantage over the typical aluminum sliding table.

  11. #26
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    While I would personally prefer a wagon that's right up to the blade, if you are comfortable with the offset of the slider from the blade, that's certainly a "stout" looking tool!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #27
    Im partial to two tone green vintage. Have a feeling beige is heavier than two tone green.

    Good logic there Joe on the metal left of the blade. I have that and its fine. + My sliding table is not cast but rather metal not aluminum but not cast. Not sure how heavy cast would be if you had reason to take it on and off. I have had my sliding table on and off a few times but thinking it will always stay on.

    ill check for photos of the two models memory they were S16SF or close to that.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post

    ”sometimes it’s nice to have a same level of table both sides of the blade. The sliding table raised slightly above the cast table can sometimes be a drawback on fine joinery cuts. As Dave mentions for shorter work next to the blade is better”
    Joe that’s a good point, although I can make it work I think I run into a scenario almost every project where having a little bit of table to the left of the blade would be benefit. Looks to be a good 6”, that might cause a little pain if you are doing smaller furniture pieces but am sure it’s workable

    to
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 07-30-2021 at 8:15 PM. Reason: fixed quote tagging

  14. #29
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    If the table away from the blade causes problems when doing some furniture work, find a hammond Trim o saw and convert it to wood. Doesn't take up much room and a wonderful little saw for fine work. Dave

  15. #30
    Thanks for the replies; reassuring that I may have found a contender. I still have some due diligence to do, but it seems promising so far.

    Having limited use on a sliding saw, how is having the table away from the blade with short pieces (8” or less?) different than the way a miter gauge might work? This is how I typically crosscut now if not using a shop built cross cut sled for one reason or another. Is the potential annoyance of that simply that the short stock is sliding over the fixed part of the table (against the crosscut fence) and not actually touching the sliding table or am I missing something?
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 07-30-2021 at 10:40 PM.
    Still waters run deep.

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