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Thread: best woods for exterior paint grade wood rot repair

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
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    9,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hollingsworth View Post
    I wish I could find some of that pine from 1927.
    Not the same quality today.
    That was good stuff for sure. But you are underestimating how good pine still is for trim work. All of the trim on my 1961 built house is pine. I've replaced one short piece of fascia. A common trim material in my area these days is finger jointed pre-primed pine. I put it on my solar drier a few years ago; didn't even bother to paint it besides sealing the cut ends. Still looks fine. I built the doors for my shed out of white ash because that's what I had on hand. Ash is one of the poorest woods you could choose for exterior work. But several years later they still look new. Why? Primer and paint.

    Most any wood will last a very long time if it's not subjected to standing water and you keep it painted. My two cents.

    John

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    N CA
    Posts
    1,277
    That is interesting Jim, We did the whole house with Azek in ‘13, Corner boards, door and window trim and I keep an eye on it. It has not opened or warped at all. Regional extreme temps and shading certainly could explain it. Coldest I’ve seen at our house is 20* and hottest is 112.* Contractor used biscuits on the joints and alinement is excellent. The general now recommends the Azek to people. His pitch is that it is more expensive but consistent, stable & he makes up for the cost in installation labor savings.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,638
    I'm sure that the specific situations matter relative to how much the movement can make a difference. In the case at our old property, the issue is with the cap along the top of an exposed foundation wall which wraps around several corners and has different sun exposures. It's kinda the same issue that causes us to use breadboard ends on tables. The PVC moves between .25" and .375" seasonally and the longest section cracked apart in two places because of it. My contractor friend had some issues at other projects in the same time frame. Perhaps it was a bad batch, but he switched brands. Don't get me wrong...I'm a believer in this more durable material for sure! I'm just mentioning that expansion and contraction happens. If I could go back to 2008, I would have chosen the more expensive bluestone cap that our mason wanted to do, but "extra requirements" slathered on by the local inspector to the whole project screwed up the budget.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #34
    Let me jump in here and alter the discussion somewhat. Species is important, but far more important when gauging longevity in exposure is ring density. I have been observing this for close to 50 years. I poked on Poplar logs in old settlements that were felled in mid-1800's that are as sound as can be. I have seen Poplar Shutters grow fungi in 2 years.

    I have talked to Purdue, they were very nice, but clueless. They even recommended Poplar to a start-up window maker. They declared bankruptcy 4 years later when all the rot- repair claims started coming in.

    Redwood is rotting in 3-5 years, Western Red Cedar is rotting in about 10 years. Even Teak is not at all what it used to be. What is going on?

    Ring density my young friend, ring density. The Poplar cabin logs from 1860 had about 200 rings per inch - dense dark green heartwood that took centuries to grow. The Heart Pine in my house siding will not rot, and is about 100 rings per inch - every resinous inch. Look at those old bridge timbers used in covered bridges. Or wharves and docks.

    No matter what you make, ring density matters. The greater the better. Get a piece of anywood that is warped, look at the ring density. Compare it to those that do not warp. Ring density.

    So, this is a game changer. Try buying - over the phone - some wood that has a high ring density. You will be having a hard time, eh? Try explaining it to your bookish cohorts that always knew you to be a nut.

    Just keep a sharp eye out, and compare when and where you can. You will see.
    I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    - Kurt Vonnegut

  5. #35
    “Whut we hav heah is falyuh to buhleev eny sighense butt owuh ohne “
    Yeah, Boss

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,957
    Yellow Pine has changed a lot over the decades. It's still the same wood, but how it's processed, and now, how it's grown make a difference. I've used miles of it for exterior trim. Up until 1992, when the last old school lumber yard/sawmill went out of business, it became something different.

    Before then, they rough sawed it, and it was left in giant stickered stacks outside, for a year at least. Then they would kiln dry it slowly, using a steam kiln powered by burning sawdust. It was a slow process, but before 1992, I could buy a whole bundle of 2x4x16's, and expect the majority of them to stay straight. I built houses before then with Yellow Pine studs.

    After those operations couldn't compete with the lower prices of the big guys, Yellow Pine has developed the reputation that you know today. Sometime ago, they stopped even selling Yellow Pine 2x4's, except for specially processed ones for truss manufacturers. Almost no SYP 2x4 will stay straight now.

    The reason is that they saw the trees as soon as possible after the logs come in, and kiln dry it overnight. Stand back whey you cut the bands on a bundle. This is the yellow pine you buy in stores today.

    Not only that, but they've changed the way it's grown. I'm down the line from several generations of timber growers. In my Father's, and his Parent's day, they would let the trees grow as tall as they could until the lowest limbs were 34 feet up, before any thinning was done. This resulted in two really good 16' saw logs, but it was a much slower process than what is recommended today. The price per acre may have been a third higher per acre, but you didn't get your money as quickly.

    These days, they recommend thinning early, which makes the limbs grow out more, and the tree produces more tonnage per acre quicker than doing it the old way. You get trees with much larger growth rings, and many more knots, including large knots, but the timber grower gets paid quicker. The tons per acre, which is how timber is bought, may be the same in 30 years, as it would be at 40 years with higher value saw logs, but the cost is lower. Good saw logs go for big money now, but the people growing them are few, and far between. I'm one of those, and the timber will be for my children.

    To keep timberland at the low property tax rate, you have to present a Forestry Management Plan. This is a good source of income for Foresters, but I write my own.

    Over the decades, I've used various woods for replacement window sills on the old houses I work on. For the last 6 years, I've started casting them in place out of concrete, coating with epoxy after completely drying (might take over a year), and paint over that with the best paint. So far, that's looking pretty promising.

  7. #37
    Tom, I’m impressed with your method ,and ability to get a client to wait ! I had to replace a sill on my house ,year or two ago. I just
    picked out a sill with bark side up, fir of just average quality and covered it with light canvas and painted. I’m sure it will last a long time.
    The testing was done long before I was born. Many things were treated in that manner for a long time ,including porch floors.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,957
    Here are a couple of pictures of one of my cast in place, concrete window sills. I fold a pan out of some non-rusting sheet metal. This one was some leftover vinyl coated aluminum Trim Coil. If it's appropriate, I make a form that leaves the texture of old wood, and even with exposed pegs. This one was a simple one. I thought I had some pictures of it finished, but didn't find them in the computer. I forget to take pictures most of the time. This was the day I made this one. The forms came off several weeks later.

    Sorry, not taking time to flip the iphone pictures.

    Mel, I only work for very smart people, and don't waste time for estimates, or deadlines.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #39
    The “you are a really smart guy” thing has always been a good smooth path and I have used it too. But when it doesn’t work …I slog thru
    the facts. They thank me later.

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