[OP]
Member
I'm considering going with a 12" or 16" new jointer. The usual suspects are Laguna, Powermatic, Oliver. Also a brand called Ironwood I've never heard of. The specs on these machines are all very similar. Does anyone have any insight into the build quality--or are all of these basically coming out of the same factory? SCM is also in the running, selling at at $3k premium over similar models. Any experience with the SCM?
Thanks in advance!
Member
Just a question, as I know others will ask it and better to get it out of the way initially - why not a top quality, excellent condition used jointer? You can buy the best of the best brands/quality used for what $ you’re talking about new.
Still waters run deep.
[OP]
Member
I probably don't have a good answer. I've been considering that as well, and now have 3 ph. power so probably ought to bring used machines back into consideration. Wanting long bed and modern cutterhead, so a little harder to find. Perhaps in the end, worth the searching and waiting?!?Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell
Member
Just for reference, I have an Oliver 166 BD (12”) with a Terminus indexed head (same as Tersa) and the total bed length is just over 100”. I paid $1250 for it a handful of years ago. It came out of a working shop and hasn’t needing anything except adjusting the beds after moving and oil in the oil cups. Granted, the machine is worth twice or more what I paid for it, but still under half of the cost of most (all?) of the new machines on your list, and I would argue the Oliver is made better and will last longer than the Asian imports (and it’s from 1940!)
Martin makes some exquisite extra-long bed machines with Tersa heads, though they really don’t come up used that often and may be out of the price range even used?
When you say long beds what are you expecting?
Yes, you will have to search and hunt to some degree, but if you have a healthy budget already (sounds like you do) you wouldn’t do poorly to post a Wanted Ad on somewhere like the WoodWeb classifieds with your must haves and preferences and see what comes.
Still waters run deep.
[OP]
Member
An Oliver 166 would be perfect, and am trying to get around 100" of bed length, as I do dining tables. No doubt your Oliver will be straightening boards for a very long time. Thanks for the tip on the classifieds--may give that a go.
Contributor
I kinda like the Iron wood jointers. Patrick Molzahn has one I’ve seen him using it in a instructional video. Jointer safety and techniques. It even has carbide insert head with the inserts facing in the correct direction. Unlike the bryd head where they face backwards.
Heres the iron head.
Aj
Contributor
Where are you located? Dave
Member
I don't need a 16" jointer, but somehow always keep looking at one. It's on my bucket list of machinery.
If you have 3 phase power, it opens up a lot of options. The SCM / Nova and Felder line are much more expensive, but usually have 8-10 hp motors.
The Grizzly, Laguna, Oliver, type brands usually are 5hp. Older machines are an option, but you can spend $1500-2000 upgrading to a helical cutterhead. To each their own, but I would not buy an old school straight knife 16" planer without upgrading the head, or finding one that was. Maybe if I found a great deal on a used, could go Tersa if it was so equipped. But with how hard it is to find used stuff these days and expensive asking prices, getting brand new ain't a bad option.
You're going to be ~7000 ish for the 5hp Taiwanese stuff, and then there's a big jump to Felder / Nova in the 10k-11k range.
If money wasn't an issue, I'd love this puppy.
https://www.scmgroup.com/en_US/scmwo...nova-f-410.722
Member
When I was shopping for a jointer/planer combo I wanted to buy SCM. yes they do cost more but when it comes to machinery/tooling, you really get what you pay. there is a slight premium in SCM but you know if your machine breaks down there is part for it - I have first hand experience with this with my wide belt sander. - its 30-40 years old and parts still available.
I endup with a Felder AD951 but very tempted to swap it to SCM L'Invincibile FS7 - back then SCM New Zealand didnt have the FS7 in stock and it will take 6-7 months to deliver. Felder had 2 AD951 in stock.
Member
Andrew - curious response. My first reaction was the Ironwood heads have the carbide going the wrong way, based on literally every other spiral/helix style head on the market, but I guess, if Byrd did this originally, and everyone copied it, they're all wrong!It even has carbide insert head with the inserts facing in the correct direction. Unlike the bryd head where they face backwards.
It actually has given me pause on choosing one of the Ironwood planers, based on that "oddity". Would love to hear from someone who has compared the two. Worth noting is that these carbide bits are retained more like a shaper insert-style head, including gibs, making me wonder if it actually may be superior, or at least the "right" way as your response suggests. Any further insight on that?
Contributor
The bryd head inserts have a 30 degree facebevel. This is creates more of a scraping cut it also takes more power for it remove wood. One way to look at it is a saw blade that has little or maybe even zero forward rake.
Or a wood turning tool that has negative rake.
I prefer a jointer with sharp high speed steel since it’s a handfed machine I don’t like extra feed pressure.
Its probably more accurate to say the bryd inserts are upside down.
Carbide insert heads have been around for a long time. The bryd heads are definitely a favorite choice for many.
Heres other carbide inserts with forward rake and carbide.
Last edited by Andrew Hughes; 07-06-2021 at 11:44 PM.
Aj
Contributor
Andrew, good info that is needed by anyone ready to buy. Agree with steel knives, insist on REAL high speed steel, preferably marked ,as
some vendors hawk low grade knives with “same hardness” as real high speed steel. I like real M-2 or T-1. Seasoned workmen know the
difference and don’t buy the low grade stuff ,no matter how cheap it’s offered.
Contributor
If I were in the market for a spiral head, I'd think about the long term (25 years+) availability of replacement cutters. I've seen some unique cutter designs in benchtop machines. Benchtop machines aren't likely to live that long so replacing cutters may not be a huge concern. A cast iron machine with induction motor could live a long time.
Contributor
I think the Byrd style is popular because of how simple it is to replace them. Also having 4 edges help people justify the cost.
Member
I would suggest the used jointer option, especially if three phase is an option. I was shopping for a twelve inch machine and ended up buying a 16'' jointer for an even grand less than the one 12'' I looked at. I believe that the single phase vs three phase got me the deal. And yeah the sixteen is way more machine, as in this is the lifetime jointer.
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