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Thread: Where are you with the unicorn sharpening method?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elise Anna Boer View Post
    I remember when everyone raved about Lie Nielsen A2 chisels so I bought one out of curiosity. That was money down the drain
    While there is nothing wrong with LN A2 steel, its a shame LN moved away from 01 steel. 01 steel will still produce a more refined cutting edge at a lower secondary bevel than A2 can achieve.

    regards Stewie;

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Before a few here decide to throw the baby out with the bathwater, set the mocking tone aside and understand that the Unicorn Method is different from other sharpening strategies, is useful, and has a place alongside other methods.
    The mocking tone is mostly coming from two professional trolls who are posting under fake names, and who have been banned from numerous forums, including this one. If you've been around for a while, they're easy to spot.

    Anyway…to elaborate a bit on what Derek said, the principle insight of the Unicorn, thoroughly documented with microscope pics and quantitative tests by David Weaver and Winston Chang, is this:
    If you have a low primary bevel (20-25 degrees), and you add a very small "nano" bevel of up to 45 degrees, the resulting edge will be more durable, and penetrate more easily, than the same chisel would if it had a typical secondary bevel of 30-35 degrees. The 45°-ish bevel must be really small, just a few thousandths wide, hence the aptness of Derek's term "nanobevel." It also seems to help if the nanobevel is convex. And there are a number of ways to get there: with a buffing wheel, stones, a strop, or a combination of the last two.

    Experiment. Be willing to fail. Keep an open mind. Ignore the trolls.

  3. #33
    For those of you who are understandably skeptical about the Unicorn method, let me just state that it has definitely helped maintain the edges of my relatively inexpensive Marples chisels. You might be using higher quality chisels, or have grown weary of new sharpening methods.

    I had been grinding to a 25 degree primary bevel with diamond stones when needed, and adding a secondary bevel about 27 degrees with Shapton 6000 and 16000 glass stones, followed by stropping. When working with hard maple, the edges would dull and develop knicks very quickly.

    I was annoyed to the point of ordering a set of Veritas PM-V11 chisels but they were out of stock, so after reading about this method I decided to try it. The investment and learning curve was low, so I had nothing to lose. My current regimen just replaces the strop with buffing on the grinder to produce the tiny rounded tip. And for me, it works well.

    I still might order those beautiful Veritas chisels which seem to be calling me...

  4. #34
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    Tim; I am not having a go at your sharpening technique, but if you want to know the reason why your chisels would dull early and develop knicks, a 27* degree secondary for bench chisels is much lower than would normally be recommended.

    with regards Stewie;

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Tim; I am not having a go at your sharpening technique, but if you want to know the reason why your chisels would dull early and develop knicks, a 27* degree secondary for bench chisels is much lower than would normally be recommended.

    with regards Stewie;
    No problem Stewie, I appreciate your input. I was doing something similar to Rob Cosman’s technique, except he adds a tertiary bevel at about 29 degrees. I wouldn’t think an additional 2 degrees would make much difference. What angle do you think is best?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Andrews View Post
    No problem Stewie, I appreciate your input. I was doing something similar to Rob Cosman’s technique, except he adds a tertiary bevel at about 29 degrees. I wouldn’t think an additional 2 degrees would make much difference. What angle do you think is best?
    Hi Tim; for bench chisels its a primary of 25* and secondary of 30*. If I were to still experience chipping I would increase the secondary to 32*.

    I should add I have nothing against the unicorn methodology. Its an additional approach thats to available From my perspective it has a place with my carving chisels and gouges, but I dont see a reason to move away from using my bench stones for regular chisels and plane irons. Others will differ, but thats the nature of sharpening threads.

    regards Stewie;

  7. #37
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    Bruce Hoadley wrote about adding an extremely small secondary bevel ("blunting to make a better edge" I think was the tag line of the article) way back in Fine Woodworking's black and white era. He mentioned a secondary so small that it would have no impact on how the chip was formed or something along those lines. Small. He did not use the word 'nano,' but if alive today, in the internet era, he may have wished he had. He also may have had a whole corral full of unicorns.

    Increasing the angle at the tip of a cutting implement, over the angle at which the bulk of the tool was ground, is older than Methuselah. You can do it any number of ways. If a buffer floats your boat, by all means use one. Carvers do, turners do, there's no reason why a bench woodworker shouldn't either if you have one.

    Otherwise, nothing new has been invented. This is a running theme in honing woodworking tools, and has been for longer than anybody on this board has been alive.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 07-07-2021 at 3:32 PM.

  8. #38
    I prefer to sharpen my chisels to a point.
    If i need or want a workable blunt edge that wont chip, I just forget to sharpen it from time to time. (that was a joke)
    It's all a compromise, durability on one side, sharpness on the other.
    Some seem to be in the camp that a teenie, tiny blunt edge is the same as a sharp edge but will last longer.
    As many have said, there is nothing new here. All this secondary and tertiary bevels are the flavor of the day. I'm quite sure in the next year or so we will have the next greatest system in sharpening using unobtanium paste or something.
    To me, the end result is what matters. My chisels suit my needs, to each his own.

    Originally, micro bevels were for plane irons used bevel down to add a little material behind the unsupported cutting edge. With the steels most edged woodworking tools are made of today, there really is no need for a micro bevel to avoid chipping. I know some like it for speedy touch ups.
    JMHO

  9. #39
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    I prefer to sharpen my chisels to a point.
    Same here with my chisels and plane blades. One common refrain for secondary bevels or unicorn buffing is what to do when the secondary bevel gets too big or the unicorn edge becomes to rounded: REGRIND!

    One of my reasons for liking a flat bevel is if carefully maintained there is no need to regrind. With hand sharpening on a flat bevel there is little effort to give a blade a quick touch up when needed instead of fighting wood with a dull tool.

    It has only been recently a few chisels have been given a secondary bevel:

    90º Bevel Chisel in Use.jpg

    This is a half inch chisel that cost $1. It was given a 90º secondary bevel. It is being used to clean up some rough areas on a mallet handle.

    It worked so well an eighth inch and quarter inch chisel were purchased and repurposed to 90º bevels.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #40
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    If a chisel's edge isn't holding up, for whatever reason, it's nice to have the option to change the angle relatively quickly. A secondary, micro, nano, or whatever you want to call it allows that to happen. I go back to my finest stone and hone on the grind for maybe ten or fifteen strokes. This takes a little off the 'butt end' of the micro that's already there. Then, I just tip up at an angle that feels higher than the one I might usually use on that chisel and give it five or ten light strokes. A few strokes at that same angle on a hard rubber strop, with a slight lift on the flat side too for a stroke or two, and I'm done. You could do all of this on a buffer, or go straight to your strop (I prefer a firm one) and accomplish THE EXACT SAME THING.

    Take it for what it's worth. This isn't something I created, de novo. It is not new. None of this is new.

    All that said, there's an only barely rebuttable presumption that a plain, flat grind/hone works as well as anything, hell probably better.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 07-07-2021 at 5:36 PM.

  11. #41
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    Just in case some have lost the original goal that resulted in the Unicorn method. David was looking for a fast and easy way to produce a durable edge. As he demonstrates, a quick hit on the grinder, a few passes on a stone to get an angle of appx. 25° and 10 to 20 seconds in the buffer. Doesn't get much faster than that. Takes me longer to get stones, mat, water and honing guides out that it takes him to unicorn 2 chisels.

    Turns out that there is a side benefit. A unicorned cheap chisel will begin to perform near the level of more expensive chisels. Apparently the softer the steel, the better the method works - in terms of improved edge durability.

    From what I read and saw of David's videos and writings, the only claims made were: Fast, Cheap, Durable. I am more than willing to stand humbly corrected if I am wrong

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Putnam View Post
    Just in case some have lost the original goal that resulted in the Unicorn method. David was looking for a fast and easy way to produce a durable edge. As he demonstrates, a quick hit on the grinder, a few passes on a stone to get an angle of appx. 25° and 10 to 20 seconds in the buffer. Doesn't get much faster than that. Takes me longer to get stones, mat, water and honing guides out that it takes him to unicorn 2 chisels.

    Turns out that there is a side benefit. A unicorned cheap chisel will begin to perform near the level of more expensive chisels. Apparently the softer the steel, the better the method works - in terms of improved edge durability.

    From what I read and saw of David's videos and writings, the only claims made were: Fast, Cheap, Durable. I am more than willing to stand humbly corrected if I am wrong

    I'll agree with the fast and cheap but making a cheap chisel perform like an expensive one, I can't get onboard with that.
    The steel is what it is, you can improve the durability only so much by altering the angle at the cutting edge. At some point the lesser quality will become evident.
    Also, the edge may be slightly more durable but that's because it doesn't start out as sharp or have as keen of an edge from the beginning, it's been buffed away and rounded off.
    Whatever works for everyone, we're all different

  13. #43
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    David was looking for a fast and easy way to produce a durable edge. As he demonstrates, a quick hit on the grinder, a few passes on a stone to get an angle of appx. 25° and 10 to 20 seconds in the buffer. Doesn't get much faster than that. Takes me longer to get stones, mat, water and honing guides out that it takes him to unicorn 2 chisels.
    One item of great assistance on the quest for faster sharpening is to find a place to keep your stones ready at all times. My stones used to be stowed away. Getting the sharpening supplies out meant sharpening all the dull blades before putting them away.

    Now my stones are set up to be used where they sit. Any blade's edge is returned to working order without delay.

    If getting set up to sharpen is a chore, it is likely sharpening will be put off too long.

    My blades, except lathe tools, are seldom ground.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Voigt View Post
    The mocking tone is mostly coming from two professional trolls who are posting under fake names, and who have been banned from numerous forums, including this one. If you've been around for a while, they're easy to spot.
    I thought that just one of the trolls here was banned from multiple forums and kept coming back under new identities, but I guess I was wrong .

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Voigt View Post
    Experiment. Be willing to fail. Keep an open mind. Ignore the trolls.
    Excellent advice!

    For those who are on the fence, you can try it for yourself for only about $15. This drill-mounted buffing wheel kit used to be available at Home Depot for $10, but apparently not anymore. Now you can get it for $8 from here, plus about the same for shipping:
    https://www.directtoolsoutlet.com/Pr...-Set/p/A10BK72

    Just try it. At worst, you can use the buffing kit to polish your silverware.

  15. #45
    I'm very open minded to the unicorn method, and any new or novel sharpening methods for that matter.

    The few times I have tried it, it did result in a sharp edge but my concern was the rounding of the edge. I don't mean rounding in profile, but rather across the face of the chisel. I basically ended up with a cambered edge.
    I just assumed this is the nature of the buffing wheel.
    Perhaps I'm doing it wrong?

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