Bandsaw Advice - Buy new or upgrade old?

[Alex Zeller]

Welcome to price creep. If you want to stay under $3k you're looking at the Laguna or Grizzly. Rikon does have a saw, just not the one you listed, that would also come in under $3k. I like the Powermatic's switch on the detension lever but the Grizzly has a key switch so I have a magnet next to the lever. When I take the tension off I take the key out and stick the ring to the magnet. I can't believe how much the prices have gone up in 2 years. All in both the G0514X2 and the BX18 were under $2k.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I started this thread due to the “loose” construction of my Grizzly bandsaw and trying to understand if buying new would fix these issues. This makes Grizzly a very questionable choice.

Each time I find a review of the Powermatic it appears to be a solid construction even though it is one of the smaller saws I’ve looked at. I can purchase it through my local Woodcraft which is another good aspect. I thought the ~$2k budget would get me a quality replacement. That price creep appears to have become a price sprint unfortunately and I’m well over $3k now.

The Harvey is close to the same cost as the Powermatic and it is a bit of an unknown.

Laguna looks like a decent machine but I see way too many dissatisfied customers.

I think I’m going to go with the Powermatic PM1500.

[Charles Coolidge]

I started this thread due to the “loose” construction of my Grizzly bandsaw and trying to understand if buying new would fix these issues. This makes Grizzly a very questionable choice.

Each time I find a review of the Powermatic it appears to be a solid construction even though it is one of the smaller saws I’ve looked at. I can purchase it through my local Woodcraft which is another good aspect. I thought the ~$2k budget would get me a quality replacement. That price creep appears to have become a price sprint unfortunately and I’m well over $3k now.

The Harvey is close to the same cost as the Powermatic and it is a bit of an unknown.

Laguna looks like a decent machine but I see way too many dissatisfied customers.

I think I’m going to go with the Powermatic PM1500.

Eric as you know I purchased the Powermatic PM1500. I finished assembling it the other day, I'll share a few thoughts.

1. Immediately check the table for flatness upon arrival. Standing in front of the saw mine was high in the center and sloped down both left and right for a total .021 inch out of flat. The board teeter tottered on the center high area easily spinning on the high center making for an unsafe tool imo. Front to back was dead flat on the left side but the rear of the table started sloping down and away as you near the center. First about 1 inch of slope in from the edge of the table growing to about 2 inches of slope over on the right side. About .010 low so not as severe or problematic as the left to right high center but thought I would note this. Powermatic CS agreed to replace the table no problem.

2. I set the saw down onto (sunk into) a ShopFox mobile base in a brilliant example of home shop precision engineering complete with stainless steel bolts and lock nuts. As I was patting myself on the back I noticed the lower door won't open it bangs into the ShopFox mobile base rail DOH!! To clear both the ShopFox mobile base rail AND the bolt heads from the nearby caster which are even higher I'll need to put a 1.5 to 1.75 inch slab of wood down into the mobile base to raise the saw up so the door clears.

3. There are no assembly instructions, zero. The manual shows how to adjust various things on the saw but as for assembly there's a page that shows what's included and that's it. Fortunately the only real assembly steps are the fence rail and fence, and how to loosen the table which comes tilted up max tilt. They had over tightened a nut underneath for shipping no doubt. But the table wouldn't move until I loosened it and it needs to be adjusted snug but loose enough for the table to tilt with the little rack and pinion knob. Speaking of assembling the fence the plastic caps that are supposed to be tapped into the end of the rail tube are so small the just fall out. There's no pressing or tapping them in. I attempted to hold them in place with a dab of silicone but already bumped one and it fell off. I know that Powermatic knows that this is a problem, it bugs me they ship it knowing this. The fence rail bracket to table and fence rail tube to fence rail bracket fit is quite loose and sloppy. Plan on some jiggering back and forth during assembly to get the fence parallel with the blade. I elected to get the fence tube and bracket as close to parallel as possible, then made the final adjusting using the adjustment screws on the T fence.

Nothing further at this time. I'm awaiting the new table top before installing the 3/4 carbide tipped blade and testing it out. The saw is beautifully finished it has that going for it. There's no bubbled up flaking off paint (cough Grizzly cough) anywhere.

[Tom Trees]

I hope you have some cheaper blades to try out first before that expensive carbide.
I'd reckon it takes 5 goes of installing a blade before you can say that you could be in any way fimiliar with the machine.
Just to find out plenty of things like where it likes to hold a blade loosely when installing...
The best hand positions to install blade, i.e having to bend it in some shape to get into the table slot or clear something.
A nice chance for the blade to catch on likely the lower guide
The gudepost, where is the easiest position to change a blade from.
And some more stuff that doesn't come to mind, which might not be so obvious with your table off.

Oh and beware of Murphy's law
You stand a better chance of hitting some metal and totalling your blade when its brand new.
If you're setting up the machine, and testing on scraps, then you'd better have a metal detector wand hung on wall beside the machine.


Good luck
Tom

[Charles Coolidge]

None of that will happen I'm a setup ninja. And I have multiple metal detectors including a machine that can detect tiny flecks of metal. I use them to dig pounds of gold and silver on ocean beaches.

[Mike King]

For the money you are looking to spend, you'd be a lot better off, IMO, if you bought a used industrial machine. Bandsaws are simple machines and even if you have to do some maintenance (replace the bearings or tension spring) or have to buy a vfd to drive a three phase motor, you will have a much better machine.

Mike

[Eric Arnsdorff]

For the money you are looking to spend, you'd be a lot better off, IMO, if you bought a used industrial machine. Bandsaws are simple machines and even if you have to do some maintenance (replace the bearings or tension spring) or have to buy a vfd to drive a three phase motor, you will have a much better machine.

Mike

Mike I'd love to buy a 3 phase bandsaw and put a VFD on it. That is definitely my preference. A nice soft start and complete control over the speed for better cuts (I have a great deal of experience with VFDs so technically that isn't an issue). I'd go for that option but I'm not finding any in my search currently (I'm willing to drive 4-6 hours if a good saw could be found). I have found some very large and old machines that are bigger than the space I'm willing to give up in my small shop and appear to need a good deal of work to clean up and get in good order. Granted I'm open to a decent size saw so ~21" is definitely in scope.

I am going Monday to look at a used Laguna LT18 which has a resaw feeder along with a taller resaw fence, mobility kit and some blades. It is priced a little less than my final choices for a new machine. So it may be a good option for me. My fallback if this doesn't pan out is the Powermatic with the Rikon 18" Pro being next.

As an interesting find during my search for what to look for in a bandsaw, I came across this video which is packed with good information about using the bandsaw. He explains clearly with great visuals and helps to understand what is truly needed for the cutting process versus reading all the marketing hype...
https://youtu.be/fK9m5PadmiI

[Tom Trees]

I do hope Matthias finds some nice cast wheels and just cannot resist fabricating a metal saw for himself.
He likely wouldn't have that issue with the hook tooth blades.

Regarding marketing hype on similar machines,
you can't argue with the figures like weight, and looking at the tension screw/carriage.

All else being equal, since the Far Eastern machines seem to be catching up with the Italian's... nearly
I suppose with a cheaper machine, you still may be taking a bit of risk...
(if not changing those guides anyways...which someone might do if they are deeming some bell or whistle to be a must have)

Vs something which might have replaceable, but worn out parts, like guides for example.
You could get by for a mighty long time without anything but a single thrust guide, because you have beam tension of a suitable blade on your side.

Not sure if you could do the same with crowned tires?
(crowned tires on something like any commonly found 20" machine made today, that is)

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Tom I didn't catch on to your comments about Matthias at first. That's funny. I scanned a few of his videos and he seems to make a lot of his own tools. Those wooden bandsaw wheels are interesting but I think I stay on this side of the industrial revolution. But you have to give him credit on his explanation.

I definitely agree solid construction wins over marketing hype and gimmicks. It takes a bit of work to wade through the marketing and gimmicks especially when you can't see any of them first hand. You mentioned the tensioning mechanism. I'd love to be able to see inside each of the options to find the one with solid mechanisms, bearings, etc. I think the Powermatic has all the solid construction even if it is made overseas these days.

I'm not up on the crowned versus flat feature. I know I've used the crowned feature in my professional life for an entirely different purpose (large, wide essentially rubber conveyor belt). My current bandsaw doesn't have crowned tires (at least if it is crowned it isn't much of a crown). I'm not certain of the need for this in my bandsaw. I'd love more insight into this feature.

[Tom Trees]

Quoting you this way Eric, as I can't make head nor tail why the posts can get hidden...

"I'm not up on the crowned versus flat feature"

I can't say about the 20" lemon machine I had before my present Italian saw (which has flat tires)
But from what I've seen, if you have crowned tires, you need to have the thrust closer, and it gets used nearly all the time, which is annoying if
a bad design, as it will be noisy and need maintenance...
vs a hefty saw with flat tires, the thrust can be set well away from the blade if one liked, noise and wear is why,
and even if set close, will not really need it.

Curious to see if those with a decent 20" machine with crowned tires will handle that.
Thanks
Tom

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I’ve found an Italian Laguna LT18 with a feeder and some blades (including the mobility kit) for about the price of the Powermatic PM1800 or Rikon 10-347 new. I wasn’t looking for a feeder and it increases the cost for the used but good condition machine.
Laguna had fallen off my list because I had seen too many bad reviews along with the LT18 (now Asian made like all the others) being priced much higher.
I thought I’d put this out there to see what opinions may be expressed about the saw.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I saw that Laguna LT18 when it popped up for sale. It looks to be in excellent condition, though the price is a little more than what I’d want to pay but I tend to hunt for bargains. I don’t recognize that particular feeder so I’m not quite sure how to value it. I have seen comatic feeders for bandsaws that are very nice.

Is it close enough to you to go by and check it out without feeling obligated to drag it home with you?

I’ve spent a lot of hours using an older (early 2000s era) LT18 in a professional shop and it’s a good saw. That one appears to be newer with a larger motor and better fence. I would take an LT18 all day and twice on Sunday compared to the new Asian imports you’ve been considering previously in this thread.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I saw that Laguna LT18 when it popped up for sale. It looks to be in excellent condition, though the price is a little more than what I’d want to pay but I tend to hunt for bargains. I don’t recognize that particular feeder so I’m not quite sure how to value it. I have seen comatic feeders for bandsaws that are very nice.

Is it close enough to you to go by and check it out without feeling obligated to drag it home with you?

I’ve spent a lot of hours using an older (early 2000s era) LT18 in a professional shop and it’s a good saw. That one appears to be newer with a larger motor and better fence. I would take an LT18 all day and twice on Sunday compared to the new Asian imports you’ve been considering previously in this thread.

Phillip you must’ve seen the same one I did. I went to see it today. It is a 2006 LT18 made in Italy (at least assembled enough to claim that). It appears to be in good condition with the add on resale fence. The feeder says Laguna but appears to be exactly the same as the Comatic AF10.

It only has a few minor issues. I wasn’t really looking for a feeder and seems to be more specifically for re-sawing which I want it to do re-sawing but also other general use. It’s the only one I’ve been able to see other than my old Grizzly.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

I’ve found a 20” Rockwell 28-3X0 bandsaw (I’m guessing around ‘70’s-‘80’s vintage). It’s a fair drive but I’m considering going to look at it.
The little I’ve looked up on this saw seems to bring up happy owners. I wasn’t planning a rebuild but I’m considering it now. I’d put a VFD and other upgrades on it.
It has one unexpected design element and that is aluminum wheels. I don’t know that it is a negative but thought I’d put the question here if anyone knows of any functional advantage or disadvantage of the aluminum wheels?

I understand the weight and angular momentum aspect but I don’t really know that it creates any difference in actual saw function other than it would be easier to start and stop. So that actually seems like an advantage. Any input on this is appreciated.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

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My search for another bandsaw ended this weekend with a result completely unexpected by me.
I bought a 24" SCM S600P (MM24) bandsaw from a member here - Richard Melton. It was in excellent condition.
It is also much larger than what I started out looking for. It dwarfs my old 16" bandsaw, which was a decent sized saw. I know there are much larger ones out there but this 24" is a beast.
I've completely went through it (including taking the motor and wheels off to move it in my shop). It is very well built.
I'm looking forward to using it for many years to come.
And thanks tons to Ritch, he's a terrific fellow woodworker!!