Bandsaw Advice - Buy new or upgrade old?

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Bandsaw1.jpgBandsaw2.jpgBandsaw3.jpg

I have a Grizzly G1073 16" Bandsaw (2 hp) I bought new in 1999. It's a good bandsaw but I've struggled getting great cuts out of it. It still has all original hardware (other than the blade). It runs as good as it did new but I'd describe the overall build as a bit "loose". It has decent capability and I use it fairly regularly.

I'm debating upgrading to the Carter bearing guides. But I'm not sure if I should just sell it and buy a more expensive model and hope it will have better characteristics.

I went by the local Woodcraft and they have none in stock to look at. As with everything else these days it looks like it will be several months before anything is in stock.

I'm just not sure if buying a new band saw sight unseen will make much difference in the operation. I do like the idea of a blade detensioner to make blade changes easier. I would hope the build quality of some would be "tighter". I've looked a little at the Laguna 14", Jet 15", Harvey 14" and Powermatic 15" (that one is around $3k). I'm ok with spending around $2k or so. The $3k is getting above my pain threshold.

I'm interested in those of you with bandsaws in this range and especially if any of you have upgraded from an old Grizzly to know if it is worth buying new or if I should just add some upgrades, tune it up and keep going. TIA

[Charles Coolidge]

Our Woodcraft and Rockler chains stores are sold out, yet our local Wood Crafters has so many machines in stock they barely have room to stack the stuff. Gobs of Laguna's, Powermatic's and SawStop's. Ditto for most anything else you are looking for, sold out at the chain stores and gobs of stuff in stock at the local store. If there's a non chain store within a drive of your location check them out?

I'm assembling my brand new Powermatic PM1500 bandsaw as I type this. I ordered it back when it was on sale 10% off plus free shipping in Feb, took 4 months to ship.

[Tom Trees]

I would think that anything less than a 16" is a big trade down.
Personally, I don't use anything but a thrust guide on a larger saw, but it has flat tires

I suggest seeing how other folks are getting by, with their saws if its a problem with the guides.
You still should be able to make good cuts without needing them.

If its the guidepost/shroud and not the side rollers, is what is giving you the loose feeling,
That to me suggests your spending more time adjusting rather than cutting, and somethings off.

edit: Yes that guidepost is loose on many a machine, but you forget about that, as you don't really need to be spending so much time
adjusting guides, if there's nothing wrong with the saw in the first place.


Tom

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Tom, going smaller isn't a good idea unless your projects are exclusively going smaller, too.

You mention not getting "great cuts" with your current bandsaw. What do you mean by that? Bandsaws are kinda a rough cutting tool due to their nature, so if you mean surface quality, you can sometimes gett a better surface with the right blade, at least initially, but it's never going to be like a table saw. If you mean it's not cutting predictably relative to direction so you can dial in the fence to the cut line, then that could be tune-up or better guides, etc.

I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of buying a new, biger, badder bandsaw...I'm a good enabler for sure...I'm just suggesting you consider what's not working for you now so you can make a better decision. Buying new isn't going to be easy right now because of constrained supply, too, so improving what you have, if that's possible, may be the better play, even if it's time limited until the market adjusts.

[Jeff Ramsey]

What blades are you using? I can tell you that my bandsaw performance jumped dramatically when I started using Lennox Woodmaster CT blades. The blades I used to use never really cut well. If your Grizzly is turning the blade accurately, with no movement on the upper/lower wheels then you really are left with the blade and the actual saw power. Mine is a Felder so power isn't an issue, but even with poorer quality blades a powerful saw won't cut properly. And I used to have a Carter quick release on a Powermatic 14" bandsaw, before I upgraded to my Felder, and the casting broke apart one day as I tried to tension the blade. Remember, it's the blade that cuts. Also, blade tension is critical (which is why I bought a Starrett tensioning gauge).

[Edward Weber]

You say "struggle getting good cuts", what exactly does that mean?
From your post and photos, personally I would tune it up and keep it. Even if you have to buy a couple upgrades, you're not going to find a 2Hp saw that size for the price of a couple of accessories

[glenn bradley]

You are getting all the expected questions and good answers will help tune the responses to be more valuable to you. Otherwise we have to guess and be pretty general.

Folks have touched on size; I only want bigger and more powerful characteristics from a bandsaw. This is a machine where raw horsepower generally translates into better performance. That said, I do keep a little 10" Rikon around for curvy stuff with smaller bands.

As to quality of cut; as with most tools the business end drives most of the performance. A quality cutter will outshine a poor or worn one every time. Bandsaw blades are wear parts. With a few exceptions you discard blades as they wear. Deferred blade replacement leads to many of the ills people have with their saws.

My question is about the term "loose". What's going on here? Is the saw rattling? Does the saw seem unstable? Again, being a loose guess based on what I see in the pics . . .
- Toss a ballast (a bag of Quikrete wrapped in plastic to prevent leaks works well) on the plywood bottom of your mobile base for some mass.
- Add panels to your legged stand to provide some shear strength making the stand more solid.
- A couple sections of split tubing on the rim of the door panels where they meet their counterparts would eliminate any rattle or slipping around with that type of door latch.

I'll stop there in case I am way off in my guessing. Looking forward to more info from you. If the motor, bearings, wheels and tires are all in decent shape I think you could tune that machine up to be a nice machine.

[Alex Zeller]

What do you typically use it for? What would you like to do but feel like you can't without a struggle? That looks like one of Grizzly's cast iron series bandsaws. It may not be able to properly tension a wide blade which could be causing you problems. So next question would be what size blades do you use and is there one that gives you more problems?

[Charles Coolidge]

A quality cutter will outshine a poor or worn one every time.

^^^ nailed it!

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Thanks for the replies! I have a few answers below to some of the questions.
Interestingly, I stopped back by my local Woodcraft today and got on the subject of bandsaws as I was looking at some of the potential upgrades (carter magnetic fence, etc.). The lady there is always very friendly and told me that they had just gotten a couple of Laguna 14 BX (220V 2.5 hp) units in back and I got to see them in the box. So there is an opportunity to buy one. Sadly, I think I probably like buying tools as much as woodworking.

Some mentioned/referenced the size difference of the 16" Grizzly I own and the ones I listed. While the number "16" is bigger, I consider my saw closer to the14"/15" units and that size seems adequate for me (not that I wouldn't like a larger saw). Grizzly made the 16" portion as more of a marketing characteristic in my opinion. It is a good band saw but as I reference it is a bit "loose" ... meaning:

1. The upper guide is held in place with a set screw on a shaft. This can be made fairly solid but as a lot of Chinese made equipment suffers from proper hardened steel components and tolerancing is loose. So a bump will always misalign the upper guide.

2. The height adjustment for the upper guide has some play when moved up and down resulting in sometimes needing to readjust when the height of the upper guide is changed.

3. The guide blocks themselves move when tightened and takes a while to adjust properly. This part could be resolved with a guide upgrade such as Carter's I would assume.

4. The blade tensioner has a die spring that basically is always compressed even using the approach that Timberwolf suggested which was much less tension than I ran in the past.

5. Some mentioned the "cutter" and I assume the blade is being referenced. The 1/2" 3 TPI blade from Timberwolf I'm using in the pic for resaw is actually really good but I added a bit of twist being lazy and trying to cut radius on it. Now I need a new blade to correct this. Once again this leads me to the desire for the quick blade changes provided by a de-tensioner.

6. While the covers and such can rattle, overall I keep it in good order with minimum to no rattle. The bandsaw if very heavy and no need to add additional weight. Vibration is reasonable to minimum.

7. The fence is very poor quality but it doesn't appear that a perfect fence is really needed for a bandsaw. There are some aftermarket options that I expect would make this a non-issue.

8. There are various other items such as the table tilt is made of similar inferior metal as discussed above. It doesn't take a lot to knock the table out of adjustment. It isn't too difficult to readjust but I suspect "better" quality saws provide more rigid support. Generally, this is why I don't want to blindly buy a saw and end up with the same issues and have less money.

9. Due to all of the variances and difficulties mentioned above I often end up with sub par cuts finding I need to re-adjust. When I have a good blade and completed an alignment I can achieve pretty good cuts and it works for my purposes. It's not terrible and I'd feel good about selling it to someone who may have either none or a smaller/less capable saw.

I think I answered some of the questions. Basically, you can look at any aspect of the saw and see that it is "good enough" and I have had it for over 20 years now so it's not bad. I just don't know if what is out there in this $2k price range is truly better or just a way for me to be $2k poorer.

[Phillip Mitchell]

You might look at a Laguna 18BX...don’t have any idea on availability or lead time, but I’ve got to imagine that it would be more than a few steps ahead of your 20 year old Grizzly with worn adjustment points. The issues you speak of are a combination of relatively cheap/poor build quality and design and being 20 years old and not all of them are easy or simple to fix if you’re working towards repeatable precision.

I typically like older, industrial quality stationary tools and have a mid 80s era Italian saw that I recently replaced tires, replaced original Euro guides with Laguna ceramic, and finally tried out a Lenox Woodmaster CT carbide blade. The resulting resaw cuts I’ve made so far are amazing, however this saw, while 35 years old, is a different level of size and build quality than your Chinese built Grizzly and is worthy of upgrades. Not sure I’d feel the same way about the Grizzly, but we’re all different.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Phillip you did a good job of reading my mind! You've gotta give Grizzly credit for using the imported resource to make a machine that is good and still runs well after 22 years. But the way you described it is exactly the dilemma in my head - is it worth the upgrade... This is why I like Jim's tag line and am a victim of it - "The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often..."

Interestingly, I had switched over to looking at the 18" versions and the Laguna 18BX looks like a great choice (but does bump the cost up a bit). I'd still love to see a Jet 18". My impression of Jet is they offer good tools and could offer something close to Laguna but typically not at the level of heft the Powermatic tools I've seen offer. The Powermatic 18 starts really getting out of my cost pain threshold (even the 15 Powermatic is a bit more than I want to spend).

Ultimately, the cost of a bandsaw is why I started this thread. I'm surprised at the cost and creates the question of upgrading my unit versus buying new. These cost as much as a mid-level saw stop table saw. I'd love to find a good used unit but I haven't come across any in my looking. Even expanding my search out a ways. Based on threads I've found the cost appears to have gone up 50-100% over the last few years - maybe that's all been this year's crazy inflation events.

[Alex Zeller]

I think Grizzly has come a long ways since making that saw. If you think you can get a reasonable price for it I think I would upgrade. Only you can say for sure if going from it to a 14" saw is not going to be a downgrade just like only you can decide how much to spend to upgrade. I had a 14" Harbor Freight bandsaw given to me. I put a riser block on it as well as a number of other upgrades. In the end I realized that all I was doing was throwing money at a saw that was never going to be what I wanted. So I replace it with a 19" Grizzly that has worked out great for me. I thought it might be too big but not at all. A part of my decision to got bigger was because I plan on woodworking for at least 20 more years and wanted to not regret buying too small. I would make a list of what you want to do with a bandsaw and then see if the 14 BX will do them without much struggle.

As for will it be an improvement. I routinely use a 1/2" bimetal Lenox blade for cutting bowl blanks on my Grizzly. After 2 years I'm still using the original blade. No twists and still plenty sharp. So most likely if you could have properly tensioned the blade in your 16" saw it most likely wouldn't have been twisted.

[Tom Trees]

There's a lot of answers there which clearly suggests selling that machine in favour of a smaller one would be a bad idea.

1 Guides and guideposts have nothing to do with how well the saw should cut,
What does the cut look like when using only the thrust guides?

2 The guidepost doesn't sound parallel with the blade, that could be loads of things
Level machine, make wheels co-planar and in line with frame to see what's the issue.

3 Guides are like stabilizers for wheels that have some size to them, you're probably about the minimum wheel size for not really needing them.
You wouldn't need to mess with them, if it were running sweet.

4 Which may well give the hint that a smaller machine will be worse again, weight is about the best guide you have for that.

5 I can't say that new whistle doesn't sound good, but at the sacrifice of the things you need like mass and size, no way personally.
That's why I always suggest a comfortably sized saw for the blade at hand, so the threads on the screw are beefy and the design is heftier.

6 Should be quiet

7 A fence is only as good as the alignment that it's in, everythings probably alright if set

8 There's only one small screw on the 24" saw I have, which broke.
I use my bandsaw for ripping and resawing, so have no need to tilt mine.

9 None of that stuff should be affecting your cut, what does the cut look like with a new blade, or one only used for straight cuts
as in no.1

I think you will have exactly all the same issues, possibly compounded with a smaller wheeled lighter machine
at the expense of a bell and whistle.
Quick change blade, and presumably rack and pinion trunnion.

I'd say that a bigger machine might be what your looking for, not a smaller one.

Have a look John Teneyck's posts here as he has a Grizz, fair enough its a skookum machine, but is the same size, and has crowned tires.
He pushes that grizzly.



Many folk seem happy with theirs

" I just don't know why you guys, are so down on the Grizz,
The resaws I been gettin' are the mutha f'in' shizz.
The girls all be impressed by my 17 inch sweep,
5 back slices per inch, I could resaw in my sleep!
Gangsta Rap Chris "

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Alex - I'm glad you commented about the Grizzly. I know they carry larger and potentially better units but I only have my experience with a jointer and bandsaw. My jointer was a similar experience. It was a very good tool and worked as good the day I sold it as new (actually better than new because I cleaned up the dovetail ways to make it slide smoothly, shimmed it up and such). But it still wasn't a completely solid build. This is the story with my Grizzly bandsaw as well. I replaced my Grizzly 6" jointer with an old partially American made Delta DJ20 8" jointer and it is a significant improvement.

I do agree that ultimately only I can decide the value to me. I think I've learned enough from the valuable input here that it would be difficult to overcome the shortcomings of my bandsaw with upgrades and that other tools could resolve the shortcomings. Similar to you I plan for at least 20-40 :-) more years of woodworking.

Grizzly still competes well in cost as one would expect. Possibly the higher end units resolve some of the as seen issues with my tools. Maybe I should put their similar priced units in my search and move forward.