Dying outdoor furniture

[Brian Behrens]

I am making some dining chairs of white oak. They will be outdoors under a covered patio, but will receive a few hours of sunlight each day. I would like to finish them in a dark brown color to contrast with the cedar table I built.

I have used General finishes dye stain in the past with great success, but those were interior projects. I am considering using the GF dye stain, with 2 coats of Nature One water based siding stain, then coating with Emtech 9300. The Nature One is a very high quality stain/finish that has been very durable on my deck handrails (4 years with no fading). Basically I'm thinking to use the dye under the Nature One to give a deep brown base color. When I've used Nature One on white oak in the past, it took 3 coats to get halfway to the color I want to achieve on this project.

Is this a bad idea, or can someone suggest how I can dye this white oak so it won't fade from sunlight? I do have a fuji Hvlp setup. Thanks so much for any advice.

[John TenEyck]

I would look at GF's or TC's exterior rated stains.

John

[Brian Behrens]

Thanks John. The Nature One is an exterior stain and acrylic finish in one, and I already have a sufficient quantity on hand from another project. Is it a bad idea to use an interior dye product under an exterior acrylic stain/finish?

[Mel Fulks]

Well,you asked if it’s a bad idea. I think painting an outdoor table brown is a bad idea. For outside I would prefer a plywood table with
a brightly colored table cloth ,even a plastic one.

[Jim Becker]

Well,you asked if it’s a bad idea. I think painting an outdoor table brown is a bad idea. For outside I would prefer a plywood table with
a brightly colored table cloth ,even a plastic one.

Mel, he's using dye, not paint.

[Mel Fulks]

Mel, he's using dye, not paint.

Yeah, but he asked if it was a bad idea. Brown outside is not a good idea,but its OK for mud and tree trunks. There used to be pretty much
universal agreement on what was inside stuff and and outside stuff , ladies were taught to wear flowered hats outside ….but not inside.
And op said “dark brown” …..from a few feet away that’s paint to everyone not carrying magnifying glass.

[Jim Becker]

Color is a completely subjective choice. While I could be wrong, the "is this a bad idea" question is more about the kind of products, not the color choice.

[Brian Behrens]

The question I'm asking is if anybody has experience using interior dyes under exterior stains. In other words, if anyone has seen the dye still fade when under a uv protectant stain. I find quartersawn white oak with brown dye to be quite attractive, so that's the look I'm going for.

[Jim Becker]

You may actually want to consult with the dye manufacturer...in some cases, the specific color could matter relative to how well it still stand up to UV in an exterior situation.Even some products sold as exterior have warnings about certain colors. Using the EM9300 over it cannot hurt, but having native UV resistance plus what's added by the EM9300 would be a better solution, IMHO.

[Brian Behrens]

Thanks Jim. My research indicates that the only way to reach GF is via a facebook page, and I dont do Facebook. I guess I'm overthinking this. The Nature One has been very impressive and I dont see how the dye under it would fade. I was just hoping somebody had tried this schedule.

[John TenEyck]

The Nature One product is breathable. Covering it with EM-9300 will eliminate that design feature. That strikes me as a potentially bad idea.

John

[Brian Behrens]

The Nature One product is breathable. Covering it with EM-9300 will eliminate that design feature. That strikes me as a potentially bad idea.

John

Good point John. I'll skip the 9300. Thanks

[Edwin Santos]

The question I'm asking is if anybody has experience using interior dyes under exterior stains. In other words, if anyone has seen the dye still fade when under a uv protectant stain. I find quartersawn white oak with brown dye to be quite attractive, so that's the look I'm going for.

I will offer two suggestions:

1. Look into a line of dye stains called Solar-Lux made by Behlen/Mohawk. These dyes stains are touted as being "highly fade resistant" and should do well in the conditions you are describing.

2. You could do what I did with some outdoor oak end tables I made which is to ebonize them with a homemade brew of vinegar and steel wool. My ebonizing effort resulted in a dark chocolate brown that did not obscure the grain in any way. Because ebonizing is a form of chemical staining, it is totally fade resistant, and I can prove it because my two tables have been subjected to direct Arizona sun which is about as abusive as it gets. No signs of fading, two years in.
Incidentally, for a topcoat I used Epifanes and I have had to re-apply it because the sun will break it down but this did not affect the color because I re-applied before the the finish had completely failed.

It's hard to say whether the interior dye stain you have previously used would hold up to exterior conditions. With the other stain over it, maybe it would. The only way to truly know would be experimentation of your specific combination in your specific conditions.

[andrew whicker]

Check out the book Coloring wood by Brian Miller.

A quick glance at the book... Potassium dichromate or nitric acid or ferrous sulfate + potassium dichromate.

This book states chemicals > dyes for uv longevity.

Cheers