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Thread: Sharpening

  1. #16
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    Adam you don’t really quantify whether the mess or flattening is the main issue. There is some mess with all methods. As for flattening this is minimized by rotation of the stone and using the whole surface.

    Once the primary bevel is established sharpening is very quick and even just using the strop brings back an edge for some time.

    As for flattening I use a CBN plate. Very quick and you can see your progress very clearly. Splash with a running tap, the vacuum holds them together, rotate, slide some more, flush and you are done. Far from constant, just periodic. The price of CBN plates seems to have come down considerably.

    Think about your ratio of work to sharpening, perhaps something is wrong with your sharpening results? It could be an easier fix than replacing your whole system.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Wood View Post
    OK, I'm not much in to sharpening, but need to be! I ordered the woodcraft deluxe honing guide set a month and a half ago and it's finally being shipped, so I need to get the proper stones now.

    I've decided on getting the diamond hones so would appreciate any recommendation of the set I should get.

    this is the longest chisel I have, 13" long, and the one I use the most for notching timbers, so I need long stones. What set should I get?
    I think that two things dictate the size. The length of the chisel is not one of them. The width tells you how wide and then the fact that you will use a guide rather than free hand means that it needs to be long enough that you can use the guide.

    You already stated that you intend to use diamonds so that part has been decided.

    My first recommendation is that you get get "solid plates" as opposed to the style used by the DMT DuoSharp, which has a mesh with diamonds on it and space in between that does not. For the DMT, that means the Dia-Sharp products.

    My opinion is that you can probably get by with 8" stones (for length). Your Standard Shapton Glass stone is about 8 1/4" x 2 3/4", which is pretty standard for sizes. At least in the DMT world, you have your choice of:

    (disclaimer: I did not shop around, but i have dealt with Sharpening supplies and you can probably get these from your local woodcraft or similar with no problems).

    8" x 3" (wide enough for your plane irons). here is a set of four grits for $226 https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/D...t-P405C24.aspx

    There is also a 10" x 4", and if you really want the biggest there is, you go for:

    12" x 3" for closer to $400 for a full set (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/D...m-P532C24.aspx)
    Part of the cost for the larger stones as linked here is that it comes on a nice large magnetic base so that you can very easily flip things over to get to the other side. Yes, I have this set and love it, but, it is a hard sell to go from $226 to jump to $400. To be clear, however, you might spend $70 for two similar bases and the larger stones are available without the base i think.


    If you get all four grits for DMT, you will have:

    Extra Coarse 60 micron / 220
    Coarse 45 micron / 325 mesh
    Fine 25 micron / 600 mesh
    Extra-Fine 9 micron / 1200 mesh

    Compare to Atoma

    Extra Coarse 140
    Coarse 400
    Fine 600
    Extra-Fine 1200

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....sharp-vs-Atoma

    I have never used Trend stones, but I have not heard anything bad about them off hand. But you should at least consider them.

    I have simply always used DMT, but, some people prefer Atoma stones.

    https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/A...P1067C272.aspx

    This has the Atoma stones at about $400 for a set of four at 8 1/4" x 2 13/16", and that is with just the stones.

    The Atoma is supposed to have a better pattern on the stone and fewer "rogue" spots. I had some rogue spots on one of my DMT stones (I probably own 12 double sided stones). I had to "break it in" to remove it.


    Trend does have a double sided 8" x 3" for about $130 at Woodcraft

    extra Fine 1000 grit / 15 micron and Coarse 300 grit / 50 micron
    Fine 600 grit and Extra Coarse 180 grit

    I saw the extra fine / coarse for about $130 at Wood craft and they have a kit that comes in a case with both stones, a strop, some of their honing solution, and some honing compound for the stop that is included, about $400.

    https://www.woodcraft.com/products/d...g-kit-complete

    Best bang for your buck is the DMT 8" x 3" set for $226 (link is shown earlier).

    The primary concern I have heard about diamond is that the diamonds leave harsher deeper scratches, which may translate into a more fragile edge. I assume that if you go with a diamond stone you probably need / want a strop with stropping compound. I am partial to the Formax Green Chrome Oxide Compound
    https://www.woodcraft.com/products/g...-compound-6-oz
    https://www.woodcraft.com/products/m...oning-compound

    If I remember correctly, when I asked the Sharpening Supplies people about it they said that their Green Honing Compound was Formax.

    I hope that this helps at least a little.

  3. #18
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    Mar 2006
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    That's some Great Info Andrew!
    WoodsShop

  4. I have the trend 300/1000, as well as the dmt diasharp coarse, fine and extra fine. For most of my sharpening I use the dmt's but I definitely find the trend 300 cuts much faster than the dmt coarse plate does. All mine are 3" x 8".

  5. #20
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    I would point out that diamond hones wear out. Then you throw them away and buy water stones. My DMT grid hones reached a point where you wonder if it’s doing anything.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  6. I understand that but this has been since they were new and both are only about a year old.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    The Sigma ceramic waterstones are my recommendation, followed by Shapton Pro (not the glass stones). My personal selection is a Shapton Pro 1000, followed by Sigma 6000 and 13000. I use a 400 grit Atoma diamond stone for flattening. Once flattened, the stones are spritzed with a little soapy water. This prevent stiction and keeps the stones clean.
    Derek, I am curious as to why you prefer the Shapton Pro Stones to the Shapton Glass stones. Is is based on the feel of the stone? You have probably answered this before but my brain has forgotten; bad brain!

    When I purchased my first Shapton, I was told that the difference was that the PRO stones are thicker so that you get more stone for your money.

    Since that time, I have found information such as:

    The Shapton Pro stones are Harder and release abrasive slower, they are formulated for more basic alloy blends of stainless and carbon steel. The Pro line is special in that each stone is formulated for a specific task.


    The Glass series is considered Softer and releases abrasive faster allowing them to cut faster. (I assume this means I need to flatten the PRO stones less often). This is where the density difference comes in, the Glass stones are more dense than the pro stones making them seem harder yet still called "softer" because they wear quicker. Confusing, right?
    The Glass stones don't have the same specific stone to steel formulation as the Pro's, they are simply made to be able to sharpen very hard and highly alloyed steels. These stones were originally made for the specific purpose of sharpening high end wood working chisels and that is why they are hard and promote flatness so much in the advertising.
    GlassStones were developed specifically for the US market based upon experience gained from the Pro Series. Glass Stones differ in that they cut more quickly in the tougher steels such as cryogenically treated A2 common in Lie-Nielsen and Hock and Veritas blades. They are also engineered to be more economical by employing a glass base. (less sharpening material)
    On the other hand, the Shapton Pro Stones feel more like traditional waterstones in use and are more tolerant of coarse flattening plates like the DMT DiaFlat-95 product which produces excellent results.
    If I remember correctly, you said that you do not care for your Wine (4K Pro) stone.

    I think Derek, that you have probably done more sharpening than I and are probably (therefore) more opinionated in what you like (for good reasons).

    Apart from stiction and speed, most of the stones seem to work for me, just some are faster others. Hand stropping, on the other hand... I need to sit with someone who is good at that and just do it!

  8. #23
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    Hand stropping? Come on up! I have a couple that will need it, anyway....

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak View Post
    Derek, I am curious as to why you prefer the Shapton Pro Stones to the Shapton Glass stones. Is is based on the feel of the stone? You have probably answered this before but my brain has forgotten; bad brain!

    When I purchased my first Shapton, I was told that the difference was that the PRO stones are thicker so that you get more stone for your money.

    Since that time, I have found information such as:

    The Glass stones don't have the same specific stone to steel formulation as the Pro's ….

    If I remember correctly, you said that you do not care for your Wine (4K Pro) stone. …

    Apart from stiction and speed, most of the stones seem to work for me, just some are faster others. Hand stropping, on the other hand... I need to sit with someone who is good at that and just do it! ….
    Andrew, the only Shapton I use is the 1000 Pro. It was the 5000 Pro I disliked, since it loaded up and glazed over quickly no matter what I did. The 12000 is a nice stone. I prefer Sigma 6000 and 13000, and have do so for several years.

    Shaptons are good stones. What I object to with the glass stones is that they wear more quickly, and you also purchase half the size of the Pro. That makes them very expensive, and unnecessarily so since I really do not see a benefit in the different formulation (also it needs to be noted that I have not “tested” them alongside one another). I rather doubt that one would see a difference unless honing full face bevels of non-laminated blades.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  10. #25
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    I might have a chisel for Andrew to fiddle with.....
    Skimpy Rust Hunt, Rusty & Krusty.JPG
    I strip the paint for ya....

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    I might have a chisel for Andrew to fiddle with.....
    Skimpy Rust Hunt, Rusty & Krusty.JPG
    I strip the paint for ya....
    That looks brutal.

  12. #27
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    I strip the paint for ya....
    Quote Originally Posted by Meryl Logue View Post
    That looks brutal.
    It was made more for plumbers and electricians doing rough work than those doing fine woodworking.

    The Crescent chisel came with the red and blue paint.

    Crescent Chisel.png

    The pinkish paint was likely acquired when the chisel was doing double duty as a drop cloth.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
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    And...cost me a whopping fifty cents yesterday, plus fifty cents for the Irwin screwdriver...

  14. #29
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    My "Sharpening Center" was in use, today..
    A Rehab day, sharpening center.JPG
    It is what it is.....
    A Rehab day, 1 chisel almost done.JPG
    Freshly sharpened Stanley chisel....cutting a bevel on some Ash....

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Hand stropping? Come on up! I have a couple that will need it, anyway....
    I am over-due I think.... I need to wander out, extract knowledge, then ply you with food and drink! :-)

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