Sharpening

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, the only Shapton I use is the 1000 Pro. It was the 5000 Pro I disliked, since it loaded up and glazed over quickly no matter what I did. The 12000 is a nice stone. I prefer Sigma 6000 and 13000, and have do so for several years.

Shaptons are good stones. What I object to with the glass stones is that they wear more quickly, and you also purchase half the size of the Pro. That makes them very expensive, and unnecessarily so since I really do not see a benefit in the different formulation (also it needs to be noted that I have not “tested” them alongside one another). I rather doubt that one would see a difference unless honing full face bevels of non-laminated blades.

I have the 5K and 8K Pro stones. I have trouble with stiction on the 5K PRO while flattening backs sometimes. I am not sure I really need the improved speed of the glass stones either (since I hollow grind so I am rarely taking off a bunch of of material with them). I have a bunch of Glass stones as well, but they are not used often except for the 16K, which I use all the time. Apart from the fact that I will be taking Steven up on his offer to let me ruin some of his blades on a strop, if I was good at stropping I might not use the 16K as often.

As always, thanks for the detailed response!

Andrew

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I might have a chisel for Andrew to fiddle with.....
Attachment 460165
I strip the paint for ya....

I am looking forward to having Steven show me how to gets those shaving sharp using just a strop!

[Rob Luter]

There have been some concerns raised about how fast the Glasstones wear versus the Shapton Pros and how often one needs to flatten with a Diamond plate. I've read a number of accounts saying that the Glasstones wear slower but cut faster than the Pros. Derek opines the opposite above, and I respect his opinion.

All that said, what I found was that after refreshing the edge on six chisels (A2) and four plane irons (A2 and PM-V11) the stone was still flat as new. I still hit it with the diamond plate briefly but basically just to verify flatness. After a whole bunch more sharpening since then I see similar performance.

The enabler that did the demo for me at Woodcraft on this system is the guy that puts on the sharpening and plane tuning clinics. He said he's had his 16K for years and sharpened thousands of edges on it during clinics and such. He goes right from a 1000 Grit Trend Diamond to the 16K Shapton. He trues it up with the 300 Grit Trend plate frequently. There was well over half of it left. I'm thinking that a hobbiest like myself will likely never need to replace it. This is certainly the case since I've added a 6K intermediate grit stone to help share the load. Whether a chisel or plane iron, it just gets a couple swipes on each grit.

[steven c newman]

Any time....

[Warren Mickley]

I don't really think using the PSA lapping films and a flat surface is more expensive in the long run. I think very few workers who switch to stones buy just a few. Most end up with a collection of stones that cancels out any of the claimed savings.

Many questionable posts in this thread, this is but one example.

"Switch to stones"? I have been sharpening seriously since 1962. I never tried sandpaper, not entirely sure what lapping films are. However, my cost is about $0.0008 per tool sharpened. And I sharpen carving tools, turning tools, molding planes, knives, razors, and more. How do your costs compare?

[Jim Koepke]

I don't really think using the PSA lapping films and a flat surface is more expensive in the long run. I think very few workers who switch to stones buy just a few. Most end up with a collection of stones that cancels out any of the claimed savings.

Many questionable posts in this thread, this is but one example.

"Switch to stones"? I have been sharpening seriously since 1962. I never tried sandpaper, not entirely sure what lapping films are. However, my cost is about $0.0008 per tool sharpened. And I sharpen carving tools, turning tools, molding planes, knives, razors, and more. How do your costs compare?

In my case more has been spent on stones than abrasive sheets. My case would be one to make Eric's case. My basic set of water stones set me back less than $200. This was many years ago. Since then a set of slip stones has been added along with a few other grits of stones purchased used. To add to this well beyond a full set of oilstones has also been added to my sharpening equipment. My finest water stone is a Norton 8000 (3µ). My desire for a finer stone has been abated over the years.

The big problem with 'Scary Sharp' is more about the inconvenience of finding fine grit sandpaper. Most retail outlets do not carry abrasive sheets beyond a 600 grit. The retailers catering to those who do automotive painting usually only carry up to a 2000 grit. My tools will need sharpening on a regular basis and running around town to purchase sandpaper isn't my idea of woodworking. If finer papers or films are needed, my project might have to wait for them to arrive from an online order.

Now, in my shop, abrasive sheets are only used when something rough has to be cleaned up. They aren't even used on wood much with the exception of on the lathe.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

There have been some concerns raised about how fast the Glasstones wear versus the Shapton Pros and how often one needs to flatten with a Diamond plate. I've read a number of accounts saying that the Glasstones wear slower but cut faster than the Pros. Derek opines the opposite above, and I respect his opinion.

My Notes state:

The Shapton Pro stones are Harder and release abrasive slower ...... The Glass series is considered Softer and releases abrasive faster allowing them to cut faster. This is where the density difference comes in, the Glass stones are more dense than the pro stones making them seem harder yet still called "softer" because they wear quicker. Its something that confused the crap out of me until I experienced both sets.

This agrees completely with what Derek said. I have not needed to flatten either very often, but that is probably more a testament as to how I use the stones than anything else.

My experiences have been similar to yours.

[steven c newman]

There are 3 Stanley No. 5002, Made in England, sitting here....needing some work.

The Crescent "Plumber's Chisel" is done. The 2 black oval handled Stanleys ( That I have found..) are done.

A Rehab day, hung out to dry.JPG
Paint is now dry, edge is done....Good enough for a Plumber..
A Chisel Rehab.JPG
Ooooh, look at them Blue handles....
A Chisel Rehab, Unicorn machine.JPG
Unicorn Machine...

[Anuj Prateek]

I’m looking for an alternative to water stones as I’m tired of the mess and the constant flattening. What do people recommend? I was thinking diamond stones but they are very expensive. Are glass or ceramic stones better then water stones? I’ve seen that they are much cheaper than diamond stones but don’t know if they are less work than water. Thank you!

I have setup based on Derek's website with some difference. Instead or tormek rests I have lee valley grinder rests (were cheaper to buy). And for CBN wheels I use Lee Valley 8" wheels (again economics). I have Shapton Pro in 5k and 12k from previous setup.

After grinder it only takes few swipes on 5k and 12k to get chisels sharp. I then do a few swipes on green compound. End result is an edge that can effortlessly shave hairs and is easy to maintain.

Fresh bevel of grinder takes maybe 10 minutes end to end.

Shapton stones just need light water sprinkled and are not messy.

Link to Derek's website:

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwo...ningSetUp.html

Past:

I have a set of DMT Diasharp stones, Extra Coarse to Extra Fine. Shapton were bought along with them. DMT does not see any use any more except the Extra Coarse one. I use extra coarse to flatten Shapton. Thinking about it, I will most like sell them now.

I have tried sandpaper. They work wonderfully but I found them slow, similar to DMT. Plus maintaining edge is difficult. With hollow grind, I I can free hand on stones and edge is good to go in seconds. When non-hollow grind is needed (only for one plane blade) I still use sandpaper and jig.

I have tried worksharp as well. They are good for chisels but not plane iron (IMO) and left a flat bevel. I find flat bevel difficult to maintain.

This is a 2" chisel I sharpened yesterday. It had chips that were grinded out and then a new 25° bevel was freshly grinded. Honed edge is difficult to photograph right now. With subsequent sharpening it becomes more visible. It shaves end grains or arm hairs happily.

PXL_20210703_203902459.jpg

[Edward Weber]

Since there have been about 100 ways to sharpen mentioned I'll add 101.
I use a granite sharpening plate, abrasive paper and a Veritas MK2 sharpening guide (I don't micro bevel)

[Joe Wood]

How important is the micro bevel, for notching and hacking out softwood timbers?

I just did fine real sharpening of this 2" chisel using the veritus jig and diamond stones. This baby's never been so sharp! Do I need that micro bevel?

1chris_n.jpg

[Dave Zellers]

How important is the micro bevel, for notching and hacking out softwood timbers?

I just did fine real sharpening of this 2" chisel using the veritus jig and diamond stones. This baby's never been so sharp! Do I need that micro bevel?

Not now. Save it for the first touch up.

BTW- love the chip barrel under your work.

[Joe Wood]

So I got the 3x8" DMT diamond, I was reading that the diamonds might be a little course to start with and will smooth out after a few uses,

but I wondered, could you take the extra course and course and rub them togeter a swipe or two, same with the fine and extra fine, just to even them out a tad? After their first use, and washing with soap and a nail brush, I can feel the raised grits.

[Russell Nugent]

I wouldn't do that. Just let them wear in naturally.

[Alexander Mahmoud Helmy]

Hi everybody, new to the forum.
I started woodworking 4 years ago, thanks to Paul Sellers, I work completely by hand and sharpen all my tools freehand. Until a year ago, more or less, I used Paul Sellers’ sharpening system of 3 diamond stones (250, 600 and 1200) and a strop.
Last summer I bought a bench grinder and a 180 grit CBN wheel, inspired by Mr. Derek. After I got the CBN wheel I started using the coarser diamond stone a lot less: if I had to get that coarse I simply go to the grinder.
This winter simply out of curiosity, I bought some cheap Naniwa combination stones (220-1000 and 1000-3000) and a King 6000, I immediately realized that the sharpness I could get with this set up was on a different level. I am currently using this setup, but I don’t really like the mess and need of maintenance of the waterstones. Another disadvantage is that I developed the habit of rounding the corners of plane irons to avoid plane tracks, I tried to change and put a slight camber on the iron but I don’t really like that system.
A couple of months ago I discovered this:https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...e-P1594C3.aspx, they could be the answer I was looking for, combining the pros of diamonds with those of waterstones.
Due to the huge price tag I would like to know more about them, but the only informations I found are from knives enthusiast, does anybody here use or ever tried these stones?
Thanks, cheers from Italy.