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Thread: Nederman vs ClearVue vs Oneida — yes another dust collection query

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    I suspect the Nederman is not a really good choice for a hobby level shop. It doesn't have a lot of static pressure capability. This limits it's performance for smaller port equipment. It also makes cyclone choice more difficult.

    I like to compare fan curves and see how they match up with various system curves, so this is how I compare the three options that have been discussed here:



    You can see that for 8" class ports the Nederman does really well. For 6" they're all about the same. For the small ports the VFD on the SDG is able to spin up a lot more pressure and so does the best.

    Most hobbyist equipment will have 6" or smaller ports so the CV or SDG would be the better choice in my opinion.

    Oops, sorry about the lack of labels on the graph. That's inches water column on the vertical axis and CFM on horizontal.

    Thank everybody for these insightful responses.

    After a lot of thought, more research, and even a couple hours on the phone with Bill Pentz -- I'm looking at likely buying a couple of ClearVue max units. Two of those is still cheaper than the Nederman and will have a smaller footprint and give me a combined total of 10hp, 4000cfm, and less ducting. I will be able to split up the machines into two groups where machines most likely to be run at the same time would be on different lines. Big bandsaw, jointer, planer on one machine and table saw, drum sander, small band saw, router table on the other.

    ClearVue must be catching up with orders because their lead time is now down to 5 weeks from 10! Pentz was quite clear that despite ClearVue claims, it would not advisable to run the machine with more than one gate open. I like the idea of something like an eco-gate system, but holy cow it's expensive. And so often when i'm on a deadline and moving fast in the shop, blast gates end up being the bane of the workflow.

    How does this plan strike you all?

  2. #17
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    "And so often when i'm on a deadline and moving fast in the shop, blast gates end up being the bane of the workflow."

    Based on this statement you need to figure how many blast gates you normally will have open at the same time.
    Then size your ductwork, cyclone, blowers and filters to this cfm rating.
    NOW this brings up how much you are willing to PAY for not closing/opening blast gates as you work. Always a trade off money versus time!

    Good luck
    Ron

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Selzer View Post
    "NOW this brings up how much you are willing to PAY for not closing/opening blast gates as you work. Always a trade off money versus time!"
    Well I've done that math -- and apparently i'm will to pay a couple grand for not opening and closing blast gates and reducing the duct work criss-crossing my shop ceiling.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie McDottie View Post
    Well I've done that math -- and apparently i'm will to pay a couple grand for not opening and closing blast gates and reducing the duct work criss-crossing my shop ceiling.
    couple grand grand does not buy a unit big enough to leave the blast gates open all the time, add 10 grand minimum or be very disappointed
    Ron

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Selzer View Post
    couple grand grand does not buy a unit big enough to leave the blast gates open all the time, add 10 grand minimum or be very disappointed
    Ron
    Indeed you speak the truth sir. I should have clarified — I have come to accept that more than one blast gate on each line is not ideal, Bill Pentz gave me a thorough schooling on that fact when we talked. As such, that is why I have moved away from a single line and split machines into two groups wherein I will be availed the opportunity to have one machine on each line running connected to two separate duct collectors.

    Maybe at some point I’ll install an eco gate system to further ease my blast gate dilemma.

    Thanks again for your input.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie McDottie View Post
    Indeed you speak the truth sir. I should have clarified — I have come to accept that more than one blast gate on each line is not ideal, Bill Pentz gave me a thorough schooling on that fact when we talked. As such, that is why I have moved away from a single line and split machines into two groups wherein I will be availed the opportunity to have one machine on each line running connected to two separate duct collectors.

    Maybe at some point I’ll install an eco gate system to further ease my blast gate dilemma.

    Thanks again for your input.
    I was hoping you would come back with hard info and prove me wrong. I have been chasing after a working system without ever having more than $500 and a lot less at times to improve what I have. Past the couple/three k point a while back, still can't get past closing gates to work properly. Would be nice to spend enough at one time to have a great system, don't see it happening.
    Have finally decided money better spent on air cleaner system upgrades to deal with the fine dust and sweep up what large dust escapes. Do have an old furnace fan under workbench pulling thru 2 24x24x18? or 24? bag filters with 24x24x2 prefilters.
    Thanks
    Ron

  7. #22
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    I think you have a good plan for two collectors and splitting up the system. This makes sense if you are going to have more than one user and they can be using another machine. Just have to plan your layout so that you are both not trying to use two machines on the same system as it doesn't look like the CV system can support (2) tools (of course depends somewhat on the tool).

    I don't think you will regret having two cyclones, but if you are still looking to optimize, you could consider a bagger unit (3hp+) for the second system and only put machines on it that are low volume chip producers. For example, put the planer, jointer on a cyclone system and maybe the miter saw station on a bagger system. A 3HP bagger unit would have two bags so lots of dust storage area and you wouldn't be emptying it much. I'm not a fan of canister filters when used wrong side out like on hobby systems, bags are easier to clean and thats what all the commercial/industrial models use (note the Nederman had bags). Just a thought, more things to consider....

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie McDottie View Post
    Well I've done that math -- and apparently i'm will to pay a couple grand for not opening and closing blast gates and reducing the duct work criss-crossing my shop ceiling.
    Unless you are in a production scenario where automating the gates gains you productivity, or you need to automate to ensure employees use them for health/insurance reasons...it may be hard to justify the auto gates and they become a "nice to have". Not saying it isn't "worth it" but the value is more in the eye of the beholder, not necessarily in the numbers. If it's a hobby, it's doesn't necessarily have to make sense financially anyway. Do what you like with your space, that's what makes it fun!

  9. #24
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    I’m happy with my CV with the larger impeller for my one person shop. I have on occasion had friends over w two tools on at the same time and it worked fine. But I’m not a duct collection snob or expert. Much of the information on Pentz’s site either is over my head or bores me. After working in a shop for 30 years with “window fan” dust removal anything is better.

    Like John J I use my planer outside. Chips fill up the bin to fast otherwise. One thing about the CV, it’s a project to put it together and next time I will pay attention to the part where it says it’s easier with a helper!

  10. #25
    I too have the CV1800 with 16" diameter fan/blower. I have it my garage hobby shop. My bigger machines (tablesaw, jointer-planer combo, bandsaw) have two 4" dust ports. I have a mainline of 6" diameter off the dust collector and often have two 4" blast gates open going to one machine with two ports. I don't think this is the same as having two 6" blast gates open. I get tremendous air velocity and CFM at the end the main line - great dust collection overall.

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