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Thread: Flooring question

  1. #1
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    Flooring question

    I have a second floor I'd like to install this summer - trying to decide on what to use. Right now I'm leaning towards 1x6 T&G boards (with a layer of thin luan on top and a click lock tile system). This will be for light hobbies and storage above the main woodworking area. An architect friend of mine helped me figure out the maximum floor load (100psf) that the structure could take, and put some numbers together for me of deflection at that load depending on wood species - anywhere from .1"-.145".

    Additionally, he calculated the maximum load to satisfy L/480 limits - again depending on species that was anywhere from 40-59psf. L/360 54-78psf.

    So... as for apparent bounce - do I have anything to worry about? I'm not planning on storing heavy items, but I'm curious if anyone has any opinions on this one way or another.

  2. #2
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    And when I say storage - I'm not talking high density storage.

  3. #3
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    Just to help put it in perspective, L480 is a good spec for tile floors. Why the TG 1x6? 3/4" TG OSB glued down with PL400 is a more stable floor, then add your 1/2" osb or luan on top. If the joists are close enough, you can install the click lock over the 3/4 subfloor and forget the 1/2.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rozmiarek View Post
    Just to help put it in perspective, L480 is a good spec for tile floors. Why the TG 1x6? 3/4" TG OSB glued down with PL400 is a more stable floor, then add your 1/2" osb or luan on top. If the joists are close enough, you can install the click lock over the 3/4 subfloor and forget the 1/2.
    Part of it is for visual appeal from below - part of it is ease of install (a 64lb panel is going to be tough for me to do by myself). I also realize I have a twisted sense of "ease" but the notion of nailing down a bunch of boards less dreadful than hoisting / cutting / etc... about 20 sheets of plywood (600sq ft).

    I've wondered about maybe laying down bead panel before plywood, or some sort of decorative tin. Yeah, it's primarly a working space, but I'd like it to look nice and fit with the timber frame.

  5. #5
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    I'd also enjoy the look of the T&G from below and as you note, there's no schlepping heavy sheets upstairs...I can't handle that any more myself for sure! Given your intended use, I don't think there's much issue with handling things. If you want to go stronger, you can get 2 by T&G, too. And honestly, with that, I wouldn't bother putting anything on top for your intended use. It will look great both from the bottom and from the top. One installation step and you're done.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I'd also enjoy the look of the T&G from below and as you note, there's no schlepping heavy sheets upstairs...I can't handle that any more myself for sure! Given your intended use, I don't think there's much issue with handling things. If you want to go stronger, you can get 2 by T&G, too. And honestly, with that, I wouldn't bother putting anything on top for your intended use. It will look great both from the bottom and from the top. One installation step and you're done.
    2" is an option - actually I'd love to find a source of 5/4 as that would be a perfect middle ground - it would bring the worst-case L/480 to 96psf but most importantly the worst deflection at 100psf would be .06". As-is the price for 1x6 was eye-popping (for obvious reasons as of late), 2" is close to double.

    I want to put radiant in - which complicates things and why I'd prefer a thinner subfloor. My radiant would go on top of the subfloor, presumably with some form of metal channel to help conduct the heat to the click system, which means a lot of blocking - and added thickness and dead load.

    I don't have the top layers calculated perfectly - though I've estimated about 4lbs/sq ft for the radiant layer, 2lbs/sq ft for the sub floor, and 1lb/sq ft for the topmost layer.

    However... I don't think radiant will happen this year - if it does great - otherwise I'd like a floor I can walk on and use until that day.

  7. #7
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    You may actually find it very cost competitive to put a small mini-split in for heat/AC rather than the radiant, although if you already have radiant in your main shop floor, extended it makes sense. There are units sold that are "real DIY" install without vacuum, etc., for very affordable coin.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    You may actually find it very cost competitive to put a small mini-split in for heat/AC rather than the radiant, although if you already have radiant in your main shop floor, extended it makes sense. There are units sold that are "real DIY" install without vacuum, etc., for very affordable coin.
    I priced out electric heat - it looked to be too expensive over the long run - although I might put a mini split in for AC. It looks like you might be in a colder climate - have you done this yourself?

    I put tubes in the floor when they poured it - also insulated the slab - plus ran the gas line myself (passed inspection for that last year). So... have some material costs in it so far, but no labor cost except my own.

  9. #9
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    It’s very common in TF and log homes to have the roof deck out of t&g 2x6? Material because it’s nice to see from below and structural. I build my TF home and put 1x6 t&g cypress ceilings throughout in place of drywall.
    Bob C

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Pariseau View Post
    I priced out electric heat - it looked to be too expensive over the long run - although I might put a mini split in for AC. It looks like you might be in a colder climate - have you done this yourself?
    "Electric heat" is too general a term. A high efficiency heat pump (which is what a mini-split is) run for a fraction of the cost that resistance based electric heat sources do. The better mini splits are good down to about -5ºF for full heating. The not quite as top end units are good down to about 15ºF. For the minisplit at my old shop, I did not do the full install myself, but I did do the electrical and basic setup, but that unit was not intended as a DIY. I will likely use one of the larger Mr Cool DYI optimized units when I get my new shop building up.

    That said, you've already covered a large part of the cost for radiant heating since you have the tubing in your floor and the gas line in place. You just need to add the circulation gear and tankless water heater setup. It would be pretty easy to put an additional zone in your upstairs. You could do in-floor or opt for compact Euro style radiators
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    "Electric heat" is too general a term. A high efficiency heat pump (which is what a mini-split is) run for a fraction of the cost that resistance based electric heat sources do. The better mini splits are good down to about -5ºF for full heating. The not quite as top end units are good down to about 15ºF. For the minisplit at my old shop, I did not do the full install myself, but I did do the electrical and basic setup, but that unit was not intended as a DIY. I will likely use one of the larger Mr Cool DYI optimized units when I get my new shop building up.

    That said, you've already covered a large part of the cost for radiant heating since you have the tubing in your floor and the gas line in place. You just need to add the circulation gear and tankless water heater setup. It would be pretty easy to put an additional zone in your upstairs. You could do in-floor or opt for compact Euro style radiators
    Ah yes - I had originally priced out electric *boiler/resistive* heat. I found out about heat pumps too late to change my plans (sort of). I don't like the idea of a gas appliance in the workshop (dust, and so forth)...

    Anyhow - I think the bigger decision is the baseboard vs floor heat for the second floor. The radiant company I worked with had hinted baseboard would be a better choice on the second floor... my only gripe with that is I then can't put things in front of it, and had intended to put shelving and tables along the walls.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I will likely use one of the larger Mr Cool DYI optimized units when I get my new shop building up.
    The prices on those are much better than I expected. Thanks for the tip Jim!
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  13. #13
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    I installed a Mr. Cool DYI unit in my shop last summer. It was not nearly as difficult an install as I had feared. In fact, it wasn't difficult at all. I've been very happy with it. Mine came with 25' lines. I could have gotten away with 10' lines, which meant I had a large coil of lines next to the outside unit when I was done. When my home's A/C units were serviced in the fall, I had the tech shorten the lines for me. He only charged $100. Not only did I have a well functioning A/C unit in my shop, I saved a ton by installing it myself, and, thanks to the A/C tech, the installation now looks professionally done. That made me happier, still.

    By the way, I found the best price at Home Depot. The unit was drop-shipped from Mr. Cool.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  14. #14
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    Do you currently have a radiant system on the first floor? For 600 sq ft on the 2nd I think the cost would be prohibitive especially for a storage area. Assuming good insulation I would install a 15kbtu mini-split and go with one that will do the very low temp operation. You will be surprised at how low your power bills will be. I am with mine. Rebates are likely available from your utility. If you have a boiler downstairs I would still not do the radiant for that space. Your contractor is suggesting baseboard but conventional American baseboard typically runs at 180*. You might ask them about Panel radiators. They are lower temp, 110-140* and operate much better on a low temp radiant system. One of the best things about them is you can get them in a vertical configuration, so very limited wall space. Runtal and Buderus are good brands. Really, given that you say you might add a mini-split for cooling the deal is done, as they are all heat pumps today. You will have excellent de-hu, cooling and heating in a single package. I have and prefer the Fujitsu brand units. They are not DIY. Have a good dealer install it and support it and make sure they show you how to get the cover off so you can do occasional cleaning as time goes by.

  15. #15
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    Is the shop heated 24/7? If so you won't need much heat upstairs. You will need some a/c up there. You really have two zones that will not play well on one system. The 2" floor and a mini split for just the second floor sounds like the best way to go.

    Prefinish the ceiling and floor. Way easier on sawhorses than in place, where the floor finish could leak thru the edges and ruin the ceiling.

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