How many saws does a woodworker really need?

[Scott Winners]

Lets keep it simple. How many saws are really needed to build a house full of furniture? Set aside the big toothed saws with lots of set a person might need to cut a timberframe in green wood to build the house, lets just look at furnishing the house. Empty house, you got the furniture you accumulated as a bachelor/ bachelorette, a new spouse, baby on the way. You need to make furniture.

I know, going in, there is more than one correct answer. Let us assume for the moment the house has kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities already installed by the builder. You will still have to do some casework, but you aren't going to have to install kitchen counter tops on day two.

For me, bare minimum, I would need:

1. a circular saw with two blades, both carbide, one for framing cuts and one for finish cuts. A piece of angle iron and a couple clamps for a budget track saw for long cuts.

2. 5-6 point rip saw for resawing 8/4 stock down to 4/4, filed probably 8 degrees rake, 8-12 degees regular fleam, no gullet slope and something like 15 thousandths of an inch set comparing the plate just above the teeth to the max width at the tooth tips*.

3. general duty crosscut at 8 teeth per inch, with 14 degree rake, about 20-25 degrees of fleam, no gullet slope, and about 15 thousandths of an inch of total set.

4. Fine crossut saw around 12 teeth or points per inch with 13 degree rake, 18-20 degrees of fleam, no gullet slope and 7 thousandths total set.

*I measure set with calipers, and compare plate thickness just above the teeth to kerf width at the tooth tips for total set on the saw. I don't see any point in saying I use such and such a saw set on such and such a setting. If the fool thing cuts straight my set is probably pretty even L/R and you might need a different settting on your set to get to the same place.

5. dovetail saw
6. carcass saw
7. tenon saw

If I had to cut the list down even more on a really skinny budget I would lose #4, the fine crosscut handsaw and use #6, the carcass saw, to get the job done. I can look up the tooth patterns on the back saw group I got from Lee Valley if you need it; they are in good working order out of the box, but I will need some lobetalol and a magnifier if I ever have to sharpen those tiny things.

Once the crib for the baby was done I would be begging the wife for either a radial arm saw, a band saw with two blades, or a table saw next. Or maybe a coping saw if I was going to be doing a lot of dovetailing. Or maybe a Japanese style saw that cuts on the pull stroke with no functional set for flush cutting if I couldn't sharpen a chisel.

I know perfectly well I don't need 26 saws in my till with 6 more on pegs in the shop outside the till. I can't think of 32 different tooth shapes that are worth having in the shop without egregious overlap for just furniture.

I am willing to be a little flexible on the set on the rip saw. For dry hardwood I don't think I want enough set to match the kerf of the circular saw blade. In green/wet Doug Fir I have a 5 point rip with enough set on it match the kerf of my coarse circular saw blade and it isn't "that bad", but in kiln dried north american hardwood I would rather have 10 thousandths of set and some planing to do after the cut was completed, compared to dialing in a lot of set and working that hard to saw.

What saws would you need, bare minimum, to get started with the baby's crib, and what you would want to have as soon as possible after that?

[Scott Winners]

I have thought of one "X factor" the last few days. The hand saws that feel most comfortable in my hand were made in the golden days, roughly 1890 to 1920. Those folks didn't have to deal with plywood. I have decided I am going to bring in some of the modern saws with the induction hardened teeth on them to see what works good to finish cutting inside corners in plywood after a circular saw has gone as far is it can go in plywood. When I find a blade that works good I wil buy a lifetime supply of them and then make one good handle to fit.

So along with table saw, RAS and bandsaw with two blades, I submit hand saw for plywood as my fourth contender for slot number 8.

[Phil Mueller]

I focused on your term “need”. As you know, there was a time when everything was done without power. So technically, a variety of hand saws is all that is needed. I’ve built plenty of furniture using the following:

Hand saws including multiple size/set/PPI regular, panel and back saws. A variety of coping, fret, Japanese pull, miter, bow, and flush cut saws. I also have a few of the cheap big box saws.

When efficiency calls for a little power assist I have a contractors saw, chop saw, jig saw, 3 3/8 battery circular saw and standard circular saw. The power saws see infrequent use, but I’m not building to fill a house with furniture.

Your question may be better served by the General Woodworking community, although many Neanders are hybrid.

[Jim Koepke]

5-6 point rip saw for resawing 8/4 stock down to 4/4, filed probably 8 degrees rake, 8-12 degees regular fleam

Maybe some rule change snuck by me but my understanding has always been rip saws tend to have zero fleam.

A miter box and saw might be a handy addition to the list.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

Maybe some rule change snuck by me but my understanding has always been rip saws tend to have zero fleam.

The first saw I ever sharpened was a five point rip with zero fleam, and zero degrees of rake. I still have it in my till. The second saw I ever sharpened was my other five point rip, again zero fleam and zero rake. The both of them were so agressive they jangled my arm pretty hard and in a hurry, and both of them were more interested in tracking grain lines in Doug Fir than lines I had drawn on the surface.

I read up some more and found Pete Taran on his website taling about how n00bs should start with 8 degrees of rake, a more relaxed approach to the work and then proceed in 2 degree increments towards zero rake. And in Leonard Lee's sharpening book he has a blurb at the end of the essay about sharpening rip saws that introducing a wee bit of fleam, maybe ten degrees or so, will help the saw track better in wild grain or cuts diagonal to the grain.

So I went back and reshaped one of those two from above to 8 degrees rake with 10 degrees of fleam; the zero-zero saw adjacent to it in my till is gathering dust, the 8-10 tracks in Doug Fir just fine.

I will say for my first choice for rip cuts is going to be anything with a power cord on it. It could very well be that if I did a lot more ripping I could have a zero-zero saw tracking just fine in wild grained KD hickory, but if my arm falls off it doesn't do me any good.

Also, I have very very limited experience ripping kiln dried hardwood, an 8 point rip might be a better choice.

A miter box and saw might be a handy addition to the list.

jtk

Good point, hadn't thought of that one.

[Phil Mueller]

Scott, you’re not alone. Most of my rip saws have some degree of rake. The nice thing about knowing how to sharpen your own saw is that you can tailor it to what works best for you. And yes, if I have multiple rips in long hardwood, something with a cord is used. I’m making a table for my son, and I’m just not going to rip seven 6’ 6/4 maple boards by hand.

[lowell holmes]

I have fourteen hand saws and six tenon saws. I also have a table saw and a power miter saw.

[steven c newman]

Perhaps ask these fellows how many saws they carried to work....
Carpenters.jpg
Maybe see IF you can count how many are stored in the lids? Might depend on whether the fellow is working as a Rough, or a Finish Carpenter in the crew......

[Jim Koepke]

When you can't remember how many you have…
When you are not sure where they are all stowed…
When you are at an estate sale and pass on a clean, clearly etched Disston saw from the 19th century for $5 thinking someone else will be lucky to get that one…

Then maybe you have enough.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Agree that tooth configuration is in the eye of the beholder- what works for you is good. As point of reference, Disston filed their rip handsaws with 5 degrees of rake pre-1928 when their customers were all presumably very handsaw savvy. After 1928 they relaxed rake angle to 8 degrees, in deference to customers who may have not been that experienced- easier to start etc. 0 degree rake angle would be too much for me.

Another consideration is is couple of cross cut saw with more set for damp soft woods ~ 20% of plate thickness works for me. Hate to have saw that works great in kiln dried woods bind when cutting fence posts etc.

I also find myself regularly reaching for shorter (~20") "panel" saws for larger stock on the bench. YMMV.

Cheers, Mike

[steven c newman]

Happen to have a selection of saws "at the ready"
June Project 21, saw selection.JPG
Inside the Left Door is 3 backsaws....and 5 coping saws.

June Project 21, halfway there.JPG
D8 in use, today...

[lowell holmes]

Ok,
How many hand planes does a woodworker need?

I have eleven saws and seven planes.

I bet some of you have more of each.

I also have a bandsaw and a table saw a miter saw and a drill press.

[Jim Koepke]

How many hand planes does a woodworker need?

Stopped counting mine after about 60 planes.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

Ok,
How many hand planes does a woodworker need?

I have eleven saws and seven planes.

I bet some of you have more of each.

I also have a bandsaw and a table saw a miter saw and a drill press.

You understand my question.

I have almost 3 dozen hand saws, but only about 12 of them are restored. With the saws I have restored I can transition from cutting a timber frame in green softwood to making furniture in dry hardwood, and I can't think of any other tooth shapes I need to add to my till. If I moved a couple or three time zones east from here I might change some of my tooth profiles; but it would be easier to reshape teeth on existing (restored) saws than restore some of my rust buckets. And the three back saws and one plywood saw with the induction hardened teeth.

I count seven bench planes on hand in full and half sizes here, with no quarter sizes, plus one each of block, router, rabbet and plow. And two more scrub planes. I might get a stand alone tongue and groove plane someday, that will depend on what my backordered plow plane can really do.

I am at the crossroads where I either need to come up with some more tooth shapes, or restore the rusty saws I have to duplicates of tooth shapes I already have.

Thinking about my grandchildren and yours. When my tools get sold off at my estate sale for pennies on the dollar I want the buyers to get useful tools in good working order. It is an anonymous legacy, but I want to leave behind access to a valuable, important tradition of independence from flat pack products made in eastern Asia of particle board. I can't think of 27 required tooth shapes to meet that goal. I am to down 12 hand saws total to build a home from softwood with hardwood furniture and some of the furniture with wild grain, furniture in hardwood I am down to two or three handsaws and three joinery saws.

Does that make sense? From where I am standing I feel like I could (if I was still in my 20s) start with standing trees and make a timber frame home from softwood, furnish it with hardwood furniture, and only need 15 saws for the whole project. Handsaws, back saws and plywood saw with induction hardened teeth, 15 saws max.

Certainly a chainsaw for felling instead of a felling axe (not a saw) would make it 'easier', but chainsaws are money. A band saw mill (another saw, more money) would take a lot of work out of turning logs into boards.

A big old misery whip for green logs would take me up to 16 saws, but would likely be worth the money. A circular saw would be cheap and welcome but also run up the total count. Once the house was up a bandsaw or table saw would be lovely.

Thanks for the kick in the slats Lowell. I have, just now, resolved to build a classic tool chest and put in it all the tools a 20-something would need to buy a wooded lot and build a furnished home. I bet my kids will let it go at my estate sale for $200 in 2020 money. EDIT: but some young person that understands Proverbs 8:12 in the amplified translation will be blessed.

[Meryl Logue]

Geez I love reading these posts. SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE!