TO FLOAT or NOT TO FLOAT, that is my question.

[Drew Hennek]

Hey everyone, longtime reader, first time poster. I’d like a few opinions on the construction of my kitchen cabinet doors.

The skinny:
Our lower cabinets/doors are walnut with a simple shallow shaker pattern. Our intended look for the cabinets was a joined solid wood look (grain preference) and therefore we did not use plywood for any walnut components (would have liked to use ply for the door panels) with the only exception being the built-in fridge panels due to their size and being realistic about stability. We managed to track down “match joined” walnut ply for the fridge panels which in my opinion looks closer to our goal than “rotary cut” but never could find “random match” to give it that joined solid wood look while being constructed of ply or mdf. The structural boxes are pre-finished maple ply (1/2” sides, 1/2” backs, 3/4” bottoms), all face framed with dominoes and inset doors.

Given the doors are constructed entirely of solid walnut would you float the inner panel (with space balls) or would you glue the entire assembly? I’m worried that floating the panel with space balls could cause the stiles to bow if the panel really wants to expand. You’d also run the risk of cracking the finish along the entire height of the stiles at the panel joint and possibly the width of the rails along the panel joint.


If glued however, I worry the expansion could crack the rail/stile joint and therefore crack and cloud the finish at its junction. The water based finished used looks pretty gross when subjected to cracking/expansion...it clouds up white.

TO FLOAT? Or NOT TO FLOAT? Thanks!

Complete details:
- Shaker doors with 1/8” surface panel inset
- 2” rails and stiles
- T&G joinery I think 7/32” thick x 3/8” long T&Gs Whiteside 5990 bit set I believe
- Rails and stiles are 3/4” thick, panel is 5/8” thick again leaving a 1/8” panel inset, rabbeted tongue
- Widest door panel is around 12”, most are closer to 8” with tongues. Widest complete door with stiles is therefore about 15 1/2”
- Heights shouldn’t matter due to grain orientation but for info sake most panel heights are around 20”, complete door heights around 24”. There are 2 pantry doors that are much taller, those may be 3x” panel, 40” door or so
- Door panels are dominoed and glued
- Permitting good esthetics, the grain was oriented to counteract one another as a good practice
- Finish schedule is Shellac for a sander sealer and enhancer. Top coat is Kem Aqua low sheen, probably just 2-3 coats to leave some grain texture. Other cabinet components are finished 5-6 top coats to completely fill grain (decided not to use a dedicated grain filler)
- Walnut grade was quite high and claimed 6-8% humidity (not tested)


If you have more questions that are pertinent to the question of expansion concerns I’ll try my best to answer. It’s my first kitchen cabinet build...go easy on me. Trying to do things right to the best of my ability and access of resources.

A few pics attached to illustrate.

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Cheers,
Drew

[Drew Hennek]

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[Thomas McCurnin]

Float. Way too much expansion which would ruin your door. Simple frame and panel construction addresses this. I've never used space balls. If properly constructed, frame and panel will work just fine.

[Richard Coers]

If you want to prevent a loose solid wood panel from rattling in the frame, center it at assembly, then drill a tiny hole through the back of the rail into the panel and use a toothpick to pin the panel in the frame. Top and bottom. I've never used space balls in the 48 years I've been woodworking.

[Drew Hennek]

Thanks. I’ve used space balls in the past on a 36” wide glass/wood storm door. They’re just 1/8” diameter rubber balls that take up space within the groove if the panel shrinks (prevents panel rattle and off-centering) or they compress if the door expands.

What size gap would you leave with your construction method? 1/16” each side? I’m assuming this means you just cut the total width (and height?) of the door panel by 1/8” compared to the rail length.

Thanks!

[Kevin Jenness]

Don't glue solid wood panels into a frame- that defeats the whole purpose of the frame and panel technique.

I often use 1/4" space balls in a 1/4" groove with a 3/16" gap between panel edge and bottom of groove. That gives enough compression to center the panel without fighting to get the frame together. Put the balls in the groove near the joints and there will be no issue with the frame members crooking. The balls need to be a friction fit in the groove so they don't move around during assembly. Pinning the panels at center also works but does take more time as you have to manually center the panel.

[Paul F Franklin]

Definitely float; with plywood panels you could have gotten away with gluing them. A 15" solid flat sawn walnut panel will change as much as a third of an inch across the grain going from 6% to 14% moisture content. That's probably a wider range than they will ever see, especially if the kitchen is conditioned space, but it gives you a worse case. Space balls, rectangular panel spaces, pinning the center, or even glueing the center inch or so top and bottom all work to keep the panels centered and limit rattling.

[John TenEyck]

I've used lots of space balls and they work fine. Besides keeping the panel centered they keep it from rattling if it is a bit loose in the groove. So, yes, definitely float the panel in the frame. Plywood panels you can, and I do, glue them in, but never a solid wood panel. I plan the groove so that there is about 1/16" compression on a 1/4" space ball; just enough to snuggly hold the panel in the frame.

It's best to prefinish the panels before putting them into the frame, too, at least one coat if not all. This is especially important in the Summer when the wood is expanded because next Winter it's going to shrink and then you will see unfinished areas at the edges of the stiles if you didn't prefinish them. Be careful finishing the assembled doors to prevent bridging between the frame and panel, as that will lead to cracking of the panels when they shrink.

John

[Drew Hennek]

Thanks for the specific measurements you’re using, that’s the information that’s hardest to find. Coming into the humid summer during assembly I’d imagine your 3/16” or 1/8” compressed fitting would be best at this time to allow more for shrinkage back the their original 1/4” size as the seasons will likely be drier from here on out agree? Great idea about only placing balls near the rail/stile joints to prevent crooking, I’ll follow that advise for sure.

[Drew Hennek]

This prefinished technique was another question I had but forgot to mention in the initial post. Thanks so much!

[Rod Sheridan]

This prefinished technique was another question I had but forgot to mention in the initial post. Thanks so much!

Yes, it’s a pain but worth it....Regards, Rod.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I like to use spaceballs because they make it mindless to get the panels centered.

Anything else they do is just a plus as far as I'm concerned.

[Curt Harms]

I've fixed panels but using a different technique. Using a procedure read about in some magazine or other I taped both sides of the slot in the center then squirted a little silicone sealant in the slot, just a couple inches worth then assemble the door. The sealant should remain somewhat pliable and it doesn't fix much of the panel. It should still be able to move and won't rattle. I've also read about people running a small bead of silicone on waxed paper, let it set up then cut into pieces. Use it kind of like homemade spaceballs.

[Bruce Lowekamp]

Thanks for the specific measurements you’re using, that’s the information that’s hardest to find. Coming into the humid summer during assembly I’d imagine your 3/16” or 1/8” compressed fitting would be best at this time to allow more for shrinkage back the their original 1/4” size as the seasons will likely be drier from here on out agree? Great idea about only placing balls near the rail/stile joints to prevent crooking, I’ll follow that advise for sure.

Spaceballs recommends compressing no more than 1/3. https://spaceballs.com/. I would probably do 1/3 compression if I’m doing it in the summer and 1/4 otherwise.

Bruce

[roger wiegand]

Float, prefinish the panels lest unfinished edges be exposed when things move. I've never had a problem for which spaceballs seemed to be the solution, so I have no particular opinion on them. AFAIK the Shakers built plenty of cabinets without them, I've built more than a few.