Trimming veneer (glued down) with downcut spiral bit - Speed?

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

As I've stated before, I'm practicing on boxes to finally be able to veneer a speaker box. I think my last challenge (at the moment) before getting to do generic paper backed veneers is to learn how to cleanly trim veneer on edges. Their speaker cabinet design has a tweeter with no flange and a logo with no flange. The veneer has to be clean cut around the holes.

I bought the Whiteside RFTD1600 (1/8" spiral cut, downward) because I don't have room for a rolling bearing on one of the holes. So... before I start experimenting tomorrow... is there a place speed-wise I should start? I have the DeWalt trim router. Since the bit is so small in diameter, should I expect to start at the upper speed limit of the router?

Any other advice to shorten my learning time?

[Richard Coers]

With an 1/8" diameter bit, run the router wide open. I've never used a down spiral bit to trim veneer or laminate. Up cut or 2 flute works just fine.

[Kevin Jenness]

As Richard said, run it full speed, but be prepared to turn it down if you get burning.. Downcut is the way to go. If you are doing production keep spares on hand.

Did you settle on a layup method?

[Zachary Hoyt]

Downcut should shear the edge of the cut more cleanly, as I understand it. The faster the router runs the faster you will have to move the bit through the wood to keep it from burning, so there may be a happy medium between too slow to cut well and burning. I like to be able to move the router a bit more slowly when I'm trying to follow a line, a bearing guided bit is fine to zip along quite fast. This may be just due to my limited router skills.

[andrew whicker]

I think so. I'm using hide glue. I've been working with both raw and paper backed. The customer gave me paper backed walnut to start with and only wants the top and front to match grain because we're starting on the cheapest set of cabinets first.

Repairs still seem inevitable at this point. I can't seem to glue down a sheet so that no errors on the edge happen, no matter what I try. I'd like to veneer the cabinets soon for timeliness. I'd like to get some sort of workflow coming in and out associated with this work. I really think this could turn into a W2 employee type deal if I get the system wired.

I'm picking up a used veneer table soon to do flat stuff. We talked about laying out veneer in advance using his CNC's patterns he uses so that he could cut the cabinets and the grain would match, if that makes sense. Either way, I'd like to make some furniture with veneer and the table will help. I'd also like to do some highly customized veneer patterns. I'd like to see if there is a market for custom veneer panels. I know there is some market in the architect world, but I was more wondering if other woodworkers would like to use interesting veneer, but don't have the skills, equipment, or desire to do the veneering.

[andrew whicker]

I'm looking forward to using raw stuff for the cabinets. I got some ambrosia maple and I'll have to figure out to plug the little worm holes.

So my next steps are getting systems dialed for stitching pieces and filling holes, tears, etc. then learning how to use a vacuum press (w/ UF glue). Would also be interesting in dying my own veneer, if that's practical vs sourcing it.

It's all starting to come together. Eating the elephant one bite at a time.

[Don Stephan]

Tint the UF glue dark or black and what squeezes through the worm holes will fill them.

If friction from the router bit warms the wood the heat might also soften the hide glue.

[Mel Fulks]

Using the UF glue to fill small holes might work well, but I would use a “filler”...of some sort. Don’t like sanding
hard glue on thin veneer. I would use the shellac filler sticks , or the “crayons”

[Kevin Jenness]

I don't understand the reasoning for veneering the speaker boxes after assembly. Since you are working with the manufacturer, why not apply veneer to the box material then cut it out on the cnc with miterfold joints? It would be more efficient, plus you could veneer both sides of the material to get a balanced panel.

An excellent primer on basic veneer processing (excluding hammer veneering) can be found in the first chapters of Scott Grove's "Advanced Veneering". It may save you some time on getting your system worked out (plus it has some really innovative techniques for seaming burl patterns).

For hammer veneering, a practical approach can be found in Paul Richardson's "Making Classic English Furniture".

[andrew whicker]

Thanks for the recommendations, I just bought them. I currently have Craig Thibodeau's book. We've already talked about my veneering flat panels for him. I didn't know about this miterfold joint. I'll ask him what he thinks.

Thanks for the help!